What’s going on with tires?

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Antaeus, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Antaeus

    Antaeus Registered

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    I want increase tire wear in Formula Master mod, but any changes i done, brings no effect, mainly i change WearRate

    i dont know where is problem, i tried change Heating and Transfer, but no effect also (all changes in .tbc)

    any solutions?
     
  2. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito Registered

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    The .tbc is only used for AI. You want to look at the .TGM instead
     
  3. Antaeus

    Antaeus Registered

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    any sugestion which option is similar to WearRate? (in .TGM)
     
  4. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito Registered

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    I don't have the latest build in front of me at the moment. But it should be under [Realtime] section. In the previous build the parameter was named TemporaryAbrasion, but I think it's been updated in the newest build. TemporaryAbrasion gives the volume of thread rubber that is removed per friction work ( unit m^3/J )
     
  5. Antaeus

    Antaeus Registered

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    yep, TemporaryAbrasion was replaced by:
    AbrasionCurveWLFStartStep
    AbrasionVolumePerUnitEnergy
    DegradationCurveParameters
    DegradationPerUnitHistory

    but, how read it..
     
  6. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito Registered

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    AbrasionCurveWLFStartStep=(-6.5,0.5) start value and step value of log(aT*V). So aT*V=10^-6.5, 10^-6.0,10^-5.5 etc...
    AbrasionVolumePerUnitEnergy=() table of abrasion rate (m^3/J) for each step of log(aT*V) defined above with StartStep. The curve should start high then decrease through a minimum and then increase again (i.e. low temperatures)

    DegradationPerWearFraction=() table of degradation as a function of wear%
    DegradationPerUnitHistory=() table of degradation as a function of history. Aging of the rubber perhaps?

    I'm not sure how Degradation affects grip, perhaps a multiplier for local friction coefficient.

    If you just want to increase wear, I would just multiply all the values in the table AbrasionVolumePerUnitEnergy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2013
  7. dv8r

    dv8r Registered

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    Hey ISI, how about a decent update to the TGM guide.... You did promise to provide data, but it seems you've got bored with doing that....
     
  8. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    What is TGM ?

    We simply use the options don't we? X2 x3 etc ....it it dosnt yet work?
     
  9. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    No, tire wear is not fully implemented at this time. I did a 1 hour race in the Lolas yesterday and the guy who won put up his best lap on his LAST LAP. Yes, after 1 hour those tires were literally just as good as the new tires. I have managed to wear tires down but they stay grippy to the very end.

    Also, and i do not know if this is related, camber does nothing. In fact the less you use, it seems the better these tires grip.
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's partially implemented... but the mod needs the new lines to do anything. You can make them lose grip directly through wear, from heat (as before), and as degradation from being overheated.
     
  11. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    I have experienced extra wear from overheating in some Moes and loss of grip from overheating too. Shortly thereafter I got some more experience with the damage model LOL. It's wierd because some cars have different tire wear than others. It's like some cars have no wear or the wear doesn't effect the tire very much then other cars have a pretty good simulation of wear even if it is not complete.
     
  12. Nimugp

    Nimugp Registered

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    It is to be expected that some have more wear then others ;) Look at F1 in the recent years, sometimes having to pit 3 or 4 times with the Pirelli's, and a few years before (at least 2005, maybe other years too) it wasn't allowed to change tyres, and they did entire races with just one set.
     
  13. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito Registered

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    Note that the old mods have only the old inputs in the TGM file (temporary abrasion). So only the cars released after build146 have the new tyre wear model input in the TGM (just Corvette). Older mods need to be updated with the new model input (unless ISI use some default values if input is absent?).
     
  14. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Not arguing on the technical side of it, no idea about the files etc.

    But it is to be expected last laps are the fastest anyways? because increased grip (rubber) and low fuel? For sure a rubbered track is faster by default towards the end of a race.
    No idea if things even out vs worn tires, or which factor has the upper hand in the end, never tested it.

    But did the guy also pit in the race?
     
  15. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    I still think wear is still not implemented, just did some long full fuel run tests in the 370z. Tyre wear set to 7x and my lap times are just the same after a full stint once fuel burns as if I got a brand new set on a low fuel run, this was at Poznan racing AI at 120% and I can get fastest laps in a long practice session at the end of the fuel run. Changing tyres and using low fuel straight after has no increase in grip, If over driven and drifting around the tyres may overheat but a regular fast pace has no effect after 40 laps at 7x wear.

    In reality tyres will degrade slightly each lap and there is a reason why real racing teams qualify on fresh rubber as this will give the optimum best lap, I could use 45 lap old tyres with exaggerated wear so in reality 40x7 should be equal to 280 lap old tyres should it not? These tests are on a well rubbered in track I will try long runs with 7x wear and no fuel burn so I can run low fuel for an unlimited amount of laps I dont expect results to be any different and as in earlier versions this is showing to be the case still.
     
  16. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Tire wear works on Vette but not for example on Megane and 370z. I guess old mods need to be updated?
     
  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    The build released around the same time as the Corvette enabled tyre wear; the lines needed in the tyre file in order to produce the wear are in the Corvette tyres, but are probably not in any of the vehicles released previously.

    So all the ISI (and 3rd party) mods that don't contain the correct lines, will NOT have tyre wear. They all need updating. There are still some lines in there that are temporary so at some point a build will enable something else (again, it'll probably coincide with a mod release/update) and then everything that's already out will need to be updated in order to use the new feature.

    I haven't checked every ISI mod, but the ones I've looked at only contain a 'temporaryAbrasion' line which is a simple "x energy gives y wear" and only influences the 'tyre wear' figure and HUD graphic.

    In the Corvette, and any mod that has used the more recent lines, the wear produces grip dropoff as does degradation (due to the tyre's heat history). Instantaneous grip loss due to high rubber temperature is still there, as it's always been.

    So no, the 370z probably won't have it until it's updated.
     
  18. Antaeus

    Antaeus Registered

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    rFF1 Formula Master has 'new' tire wear included
     
  19. lemming77

    lemming77 Registered

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    I'd definitely like more insight into what these parameters mean, as even the TGM quickstart guide leaves some questions.

    If I've understood correctly, RubberPressureSensitivityPower is kind of like the new version of LoadSens. But if that's the case, then due to the shape of the curve you get when you graph the function, weight transfer is a good thing in rF2, and you get the maximum grip through a corner if you have the car balanced on two wheels. Which is contrary to general consensus that the maximum tractive force is gained with zero weight transfer.

    This is ridiculous enough that I'm 100% convinced it isn't the case in rF2. ISI know better than that, so I'm sure I've just misunderstood. Just one example of how I for one would really like to have more clarity and detail in the documentation.
     
  20. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    I just saw something strange in an aussie V8 SuperCars race. Larkin measured the temps of tires off a car stacked up in the garage fresh from a stint. Rears were 114C, fronts were a little less. In rF2 if the tires are running 114C surface temp after a cool down period, they would wear very fast. There would be no grip and the car would not handle. Hot tires that came through pit lane and sat for a minute would cool down very fast in rF2 also. I've seen this with other series as well from watching races in the past. 7Mate just put some numbers behind it.

    Either V8 SuperCars use a special compound or ISI has to work on how the tires heat up and retain heat. I think they underestimate the heat capacitance of the wheel/brake assembly and tire compound. I also think that they wear and grip falls off at lower temps than real tires do.
     

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