We need documentation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chuckyeager, May 14, 2017.

  1. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    127
    I did. I pointed out that all of your documents are outdated. Others pointed out that reverse engineering is not fun nor trial and error.
    S397 claims that they are reading every comment on the forum. They are not silly they knows that the documents are outdated. They know exactly what are the missing pieces. They don't need me and others to point this out.

    For some reason, you don't want to process this info.

    And you were the one who asked if I have any question.

    And honestly, it was a pretty fucking annoying question. Because this whole topic is here because after reading the official docs we still have questions.

    So it would be pretty nice if you would stop linking the docs for me and others without even reading them.

    That's the point of the thread. We want up to date docs.
     
    Louis likes this.
  2. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    127
    I don't know what do you expect from me or from others. It's pretty insane what you are doing in this topic.
    Apparently pointing out repeatedly by me and by others that the documents you keep throwing to us are outdated are not enough.

    It's like we are talking to a wall instead of a human being.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
    Guimengo and Louis like this.
  3. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    127
    I don't even understand why do you think you are in the position that you can criticize my opinion about the official documents when I read them and you are not. I know what's in them you don't. I read them and expressed my opinion that I believe they are outdated.
    They are written for an os which is not supported anymore by the makers anymore.
    They are written for a software which is not supported by the maker anymore.
    They are written for a 4+ years old version for the game.
    Some parts of them are still relevant some of them are not.

    Even carstat2 dies on updated content. There is nothing wrong with the app. Still working fine. It's just some of the parameters that are used in the cars is changed and we don't know why. And we are not supposed to know because they are "encrypted".
    USF2000 when you try to open in carstat2 the app shit itself because it's looking for an optimumoiltemp value in the engine.ini but there is no optimumoiltemp in the engine.ini anymore. Car is working fine and one of the very best car in the game right now.
    Why is there no optimumoiltemp now?
    How should I know?
    All I can say is "I don't know". Please update the documents.

    That's my constructive feedback.
     
  4. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    127
    See this is what makes me furious:

    You are repeatedly pointing out that you don't understand this topic and you have never read the relevant documents but you are the first one to bitch slap OP in the very first comment because he is questioning the official documents!

    And 7 days later you are still going strong arguing with EVERYONE who dares to say any negative about any documents even tho you never read them.
     
    Louis likes this.
  5. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    254
    *sigh*

    My interest is not Car stuff.... DO............ YOU................UNDERSTAND? Just because I archived documents from others, doesn't mean I want to do any car modding! I have merely collected documents and put them in folders depending on their context. Following me so far?

    I got the impression at the start that people were saying there were NO docs (my misunderstanding).

    So I gave people a look at what I had collected just in case they may have missed some. Seemingly they didn't and questions still remain. I am sorry that you seem to think I am arguing with people... this was not my intention. I didn't know that many of the (car) documents were now too out of date to use properly.

    Now... you could continue picking apart my posts further if you wish, but to be frank, you are getting tiresome with your attitude and condescending tone. If the S397 devs really want to trawl through most of this thread then they can do that. The reason I asked the question about what is missing is so that lists could be made by forum members about what they wanted explained. Lists are easier to read to all concerned and to the point. Better than wading through the drivel to get to the actual point of all of this.
     
  6. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    All these debates would be completely different around a table with beer. I am also sure S397 is aware about present state of documentation for modders. I think that at the moment their priority is clear and they are complying with the roadmap they announced months ago.
    Hopefully, when the announced items are finished (DX11+VR+UI+champ manager) they will be able to pay some attention to improving modders support with better documentation.
     
  7. chuckyeager

    chuckyeager Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    15
    Another exemple. I just tried to put some vehicles mods in the moddev part just to improve some aiw.

    And i succeeded with some mods for which the gen file which is a kind of scn file for vehicle is clear, no ambiguity, no "implicit" rules all the mas files names have a suffix that is the folder in which assets are supposed to be found, good !
    but then i tried to put some ISI content, its absolutly nonsense, by the way this search path thing makes no sense also as it just point to path where assets are suppose to be found but which one ? geometry ? maps ? common maps ??? there is always this cmaps_maps thing ??? whats that* ???? So you could just suppose that the software can found the assets itself in the vehicle folders by finding gen files, veh hdv and then the others but no it needs some directives which are not that precise so there must be some implicit rules like a mandatory maps or cmaps folder that must be created even if there are no maps.mas in every mode etc... what a mess !! Do we have to create a teams folder etc???????

    I thought i was dumb then i used an extract tool that install mods in devmod from there component. It doesn't work !!
    There is another clever impressive tool, by leonardo that allow quick suspension geometry iterations, there are templates vehicle and a function to install them in devmod and...... it doesn't work !!! even the vehicles menu don't recognized the car. And this guy is not dumb his tool is impressive to say the least but even him didn't get the cheat documentation...

    Nobody know what the software expect to see as folder, which mas files must be extracted... honestly what a mess !!

    *i know those are common maps between teams vehicle but the item itself cmapsUNDERSCOREmaps a secret cheat code ??
     
  8. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    60
    You should slow down and form complete sentences and well structured paragraphs.

    Imagine that, someone tried to shortcut learning basics by use of an automated tool, and now they are crippled by their/its inability to function. Take the time to learn.

    Instead of writing something off as some great big magical mystery, you might just take a step back and be more logical/analytical. After analyzing the structure ISI uses for vehicles, and knowing they use a separate mas for common textures, is it really that far of a stretch to think they might do the same for locations? How about you use the MAS2 tool and extract cmaps and see what is contained within?

    Turn trace=3 on for devmode and examine the log. It will be confusing, but look for entries that pertain to what ever you are specifically working on. Over time, you will understand what will stop a vehicle from loading.
     
    Ari Antero likes this.
  9. chuckyeager

    chuckyeager Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    15
    No, we don't need to go the same path as others because the've suffered learning all those pointers and folder which is really uninteresting.
    It should be clearly without any ambiguity documented !! once and for all...

    There are dozens of messages from people struggling doing just this, place the assets as the soft is expecting them, thats just ridiculous and i'm sure you struggle as every other from time to time because its all messed up.
    IN fact there have been changed with this packaging system and we have still some old gen, scn, which are no more organized to work as loose assets in devmod

    analyzing the structure from just one very simple example which is not at all the one we encounter in vehicle mods is useless.

    I don't want to spend time to learn those useless tip and tricks, i prefer learning suspension geometries instead, i hate spending hours digging into an app because its not documented, even when i got it i have absolutley no satisfaction, its only wasted time on administratives hard coded conventional rules ====> make it clear once and for all.
     
  10. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,148
    wpuld the lack of docs be a reason why some people steal mods and use them as a base for their mod,cuz they don't know how to make from scratch,#blackgoku
     
    T1specialist likes this.
  11. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    60
    How is that working for you?
     
  12. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    127
    [​IMG]
     
  13. chuckyeager

    chuckyeager Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    15
    You are dumb and dumber, you just quoted a part of a phrase which is :

    I don't want to spend time to learn those useless tips and tricks !
    There is nothing to learn here, it is just arbitrary administrative rules...
    Thats what they do in fake news...
    How is that working for you ?

    Are spaces accepted in folder names in the context of loose assets placed in devmod part and is it different in the context of the installed things with the new packaging ? another rule i have to test to discover and there could be a switch that would allow or not, it is just mind boggling combinatorics useless to test when it should be clearly stated. Someone has designed, coded this thing and yes sometimes i reckon that i understand the benefits of law/rules disclosure enforcement :D
    and would like to have an army to enforce the scientist/techniciens of every kind to tell what they know!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  14. CamiloNino

    CamiloNino Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    131
    Looks like this lordpants guy didn't even read the previous comments in this thread.

    Your points have been discussed already. It is not about if it is possible to find out the answer, it is about the answer not being documented, as it should be. Thats it. Doesn't matter if you can find it by reverse engineering or as you say with your unnecessarily condescending tone, by being "logical".
     
    chuckyeager likes this.
  15. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    60
    I tend to skim over garbage threads of people whining for things, yes. Hundreds of modders that came before the OP have done more with less, so is it really the lack of documentation that is the problem here?

    It doesn't matter if I cropped his sentence, the sentiment of "I can't, we shouldn't, I won't, I'm not willing to" is still present. If you aren't going to get the answer you've fixated on, you are either at a standstill (and should quit) or need to change your focus/approach. Artificially limiting your approach of what you will or will not do might just be the reason why you struggle in the first place. If you are at a standstill focus on what you can do, what you do have, and you should get moving again.
     
    wizzfactor2 likes this.
  16. CamiloNino

    CamiloNino Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    131
    So you qualify as garbage something you have not even read? So much for being logical.
     
    demerzel, chuckyeager and ZiggyM like this.

Share This Page