Trying to decide between the Thrustmaster T500RS and the Fanatec CSR Elite wheels
- Thread starter KorrMuraan
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Tuttle
Technical Art Director - Env Lead
After a very bad experience with my first T500 (story I want to forgot...), I have now the new one but I don't know if it's using a new motor. Things I can say for sure are;
1) New bigger fan
2) New position of the fan (not on the top but in front of the motor)
3) The top circular vent have now closed holes (as the fan is in a different position)
4) The crazy noise has gone; the fan now kick in when necessary and the sound is stable.
5) The motor overheating has gone; for me it's almost impossible to get a very hot motor as the previous version
The FFB feels the same for me. For what I can see looks like a "fine tuning" of the product on major flaws.
Justy
Registered
I've just bought a T500 (I assume it's the latest version, as the packaging has got Gran Turismo 6 branding all over it and the top vent is blocked off), so this is all very reassuring to hear.
Very pleased with it so far. The brake pedal lacks feel, but in fairness I haven't tried the springy mod thingy yet.
DrR1pper
Registered
Oh, interesting thread, i have something to weigh in on this thread (better late than never?) because i have both! 
Long story short.....get the T500 RS with the Ferrari 458 rim = amazing!
My CSR-E broke for the second time in less than a year (motor failure) and it's a known fact that any CSR-E/CSW wheel IS going to break on you where the motors are concerned. It was a love/hate thing with my CSR-E but i don't want to bore you with details. When my wheel broke again, i just decided i'd had enough and thought to try the T500 RS knowing i could always return it. Well, it stayed and it's going to remain that way for as long as it lives. FFB is super strong, way more than my CSR-E and i downgraded my CSR-E firmware so i had the highest amount of FFB available to me (because the most recent firmwares all had the ffb limit reduce to make them last longer before failure....stupid design flaw!!!...or disgusting design obsolescence bordering immoral). I didn't expect the FFB on the T500 RS when also set to 100% to feel almost twice as strong....i kid you not on this point! I used 100% on both wheels control panel and then in rf2 i had the CSR-E on 100% and to feel the same i had to use 55-60% for the T500....i was totally gob-smacked. Furthermore the ffb is completely consistent on the T500 vs the CSR-E. As a result, it makes catching the severe oversteer moments (the ones that you simple couldn't save on the CSR-E because the ffb just went a bit floppy, unresponsive/slow so you weren't getting the info that you needed from the car to make the correct corrections) an utter breeze on the T500. A very simple example is driving on the grass....i can do it without spinning at all now where as i would have to tip-toe with the steering and gas on the CSR-E because the moment the rear end stepped out on the grass that was it...grass donuts.
So yeah....do yourself a favour and don't make my mistake by not purchasing a T500 the first time round (though the static shifter paddles was the reason for not even bothering to try it....458 rim is out and fixes that little problem and it's a nice rim even coming from the CSR-E which was ergonomically very, very nice).
Reading Turtles thread is reassuring to me because i had heard about the noisy fan, overheating issues, etc on the T500. Needless to say, it runs perfectly just as Turtle described with the newest versions.
Long story short.....get the T500 RS with the Ferrari 458 rim = amazing!
My CSR-E broke for the second time in less than a year (motor failure) and it's a known fact that any CSR-E/CSW wheel IS going to break on you where the motors are concerned. It was a love/hate thing with my CSR-E but i don't want to bore you with details. When my wheel broke again, i just decided i'd had enough and thought to try the T500 RS knowing i could always return it. Well, it stayed and it's going to remain that way for as long as it lives. FFB is super strong, way more than my CSR-E and i downgraded my CSR-E firmware so i had the highest amount of FFB available to me (because the most recent firmwares all had the ffb limit reduce to make them last longer before failure....stupid design flaw!!!...or disgusting design obsolescence bordering immoral). I didn't expect the FFB on the T500 RS when also set to 100% to feel almost twice as strong....i kid you not on this point! I used 100% on both wheels control panel and then in rf2 i had the CSR-E on 100% and to feel the same i had to use 55-60% for the T500....i was totally gob-smacked. Furthermore the ffb is completely consistent on the T500 vs the CSR-E. As a result, it makes catching the severe oversteer moments (the ones that you simple couldn't save on the CSR-E because the ffb just went a bit floppy, unresponsive/slow so you weren't getting the info that you needed from the car to make the correct corrections) an utter breeze on the T500. A very simple example is driving on the grass....i can do it without spinning at all now where as i would have to tip-toe with the steering and gas on the CSR-E because the moment the rear end stepped out on the grass that was it...grass donuts.
So yeah....do yourself a favour and don't make my mistake by not purchasing a T500 the first time round (though the static shifter paddles was the reason for not even bothering to try it....458 rim is out and fixes that little problem and it's a nice rim even coming from the CSR-E which was ergonomically very, very nice).
Reading Turtles thread is reassuring to me because i had heard about the noisy fan, overheating issues, etc on the T500. Needless to say, it runs perfectly just as Turtle described with the newest versions.
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A very interesting read indeed. Regarding the strength of the T500, with 55-60% you seem to have nailed it. Several comments suggest these values as they should give the wheel the most lineair behaviour.
I had to change the fan and its position myself, and obviously don't own any of the newer versions of the wheel. Before my current one, I swapped wheels twice because there were very noticable dead-zones off-centre which couldn't be re-aligned through the special calibration process for this issue by Thrustmaster, and which didn't dissappear over time as supposed. Furthermore, during rotation there were several 'notches' to be felt all through the wheels' range. This last one is much better in these aspects, but still has its flaws: the gears seem not to be aligned properly as the belt shifts from side to side on the motor-gear during rotation, hence causing little ragged pieces of belt to come of its side. Lets see how long it will last...
I hope that Thrustmaster has solved these issues with the newer versions of the T500 at least. For the new TX, I've recently read several comments of people saying their brand new TX died on them after some hours. Lets hope history doesnt repeat itself here
Edit: It's a shame both manufacturers seem unable to provide consistent quality, which especially in Fanatecs' case, looking at its products' prices, I find completely unheard of.
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Paul_Ceglia
Registered
Oh, interesting thread, i have something to weigh in on this thread (better late than never?) because i have both!
Long story short.....get the T500 RS with the Ferrari 458 rim = amazing!
My CSR-E broke for the second time in less than a year (motor failure) and it's a known fact that any CSR-E/CSW wheel IS going to break on you where the motors are concerned. It was a love/hate thing with my CSR-E but i don't want to bore you with details. When my wheel broke again, i just decided i'd had enough and thought to try the T500 RS knowing i could always return it. Well, it stayed and it's going to remain that way for as long as it lives. FFB is super strong, way more than my CSR-E and i downgraded my CSR-E firmware so i had the highest amount of FFB available to me (because the most recent firmwares all had the ffb limit reduce to make them last longer before failure....stupid design flaw!!!...or disgusting design obsolescence bordering immoral). I didn't expect the FFB on the T500 RS when also set to 100% to feel almost twice as strong....i kid you not on this point! I used 100% on both wheels control panel and then in rf2 i had the CSR-E on 100% and to feel the same i had to use 55-60% for the T500....i was totally gob-smacked. Furthermore the ffb is completely consistent on the T500 vs the CSR-E. As a result, it makes catching the severe oversteer moments (the ones that you simple couldn't save on the CSR-E because the ffb just went a bit floppy, unresponsive/slow so you were getting the info that you needed from the car to make the correct corrections) an utter breeze on the T500. A very simple example is driving on the grass....i can do it without spinning at all now where as i would have to tip-toe with the steering and gas on the CSR-E because the moment the rear end stepped out on the grass that was it...grass donuts.
So yeah....do yourself a favour and don't make my mistake by not purchasing a T500 the first time round (though the static shifter paddles was the reason for not even bothering to try it....458 rim is out and fixes that little problem and it's a nice rim even coming from the CSR-E which was ergonomically very, very nice).
Reading Turtles thread is reassuring to me because i had heard about the noisy fan, overheating issues, etc on the T500. Needless to say, it runs perfectly just as Turtle described with the newest versions.
you just saved me from buying a used csr-e wheel THANK YOU!
DrR1pper
Registered
you just saved me from buying a used csr-e wheel THANK YOU!
Your welcome.....i accept donations.
God knows i need it after the stuff i've been buying, lol.
You should definitely get the 458 rim with it....the non-static shifters feel fantastic (either on par or a wee-bit better than the CSR-E's) and the buttons and placements are good too (about same as on CSR-E). You can also remove the static shifter paddles without voiding your warranty (it was the first thing i did to the wheel before even plugging it in), TM have a pdf showing you how to: ftp://ftp.thrustmaster.com/accessories/Manuals/T500RS/T500RS_Remove_Paddles.pdf
Your going to love the T500.....that's my reaction coming from a CSR-E, so imagine what it's going to be like coming from whatever older wheel your on atm.
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Tuttle
Technical Art Director - Env Lead
Another (maybe) useful info is you can manually change the max rotation in the T500RS on the fly.
To do so, simultaneously press (and release):
“D-Pad Right” + “MODE button” to increase the angle of rotation by one step
“D-Pad Left” + “MODE button” to decrease the angle of rotation by one step
5 possible settings
LED status
270° Flashes 1 time
360° Flashes 2 times
540° Flashes 3 times
900° Flashes 4 times
1080° Flashes 5 times
To do so, simultaneously press (and release):
“D-Pad Right” + “MODE button” to increase the angle of rotation by one step
“D-Pad Left” + “MODE button” to decrease the angle of rotation by one step
5 possible settings
LED status
270° Flashes 1 time
360° Flashes 2 times
540° Flashes 3 times
900° Flashes 4 times
1080° Flashes 5 times
Paul_Ceglia
Registered
Your welcome.....i accept donations.
God knows i need it after the stuff i've been buying, lol.
You should definitely get the 458 rim with it....the non-static shifters feel fantastic (either on par or a wee-bit better than the CSR-E's) and the buttons and placements are good too (about same as on CSR-E). You can also remove the static shifter paddles without voiding your warranty (it was the first thing i did to the wheel before even plugging it in), TM have a pdf showing you how to: ftp://ftp.thrustmaster.com/accessories/Manuals/T500RS/T500RS_Remove_Paddles.pdf
Your going to love the T500.....that's my reaction coming from a CSR-E, so imagine what it's going to be like coming from whatever older wheel your on atm.
Im current;y using gt rs v2 but I use my own rims (momo's) Ill be using only the t500 base than I will hook that into a steering column I got out of an 08 civic, with an nrg slim quick release. Ill post pics and a video once I have all my parts and my design finshed and fabrication begins. should be pretty epic!
DrR1pper
Registered
After browsing for comparisons between the motors in the Thrustmaster TX and T500RS, i instead came across a t500 vs csw/csr-e motor thread and the technical spec difference correlated exactly with my experience of the two.
Based on the max torque on each wheel:
CSW/CSR-E: 2 x 37.3 mNm (per motor) = 74.6 mNm
T500 RS: 1x 150 mNm
T500 RS has twice the torque output.
Based on the max torque on each wheel:
CSW/CSR-E: 2 x 37.3 mNm (per motor) = 74.6 mNm
T500 RS: 1x 150 mNm
T500 RS has twice the torque output.
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vittorio
Registered
I will get me this mod (when it's ready) for my CSR Elite:
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fanatec-csw-csr-elite-modders-thread-update-1-2014.274631/page-36#post-9254369
->2x Buhler motors (the T500 does have 1x Buhler). and a better cooling solution. All stronger wheels CSW, CSRE and T500 get too hot after some time (~15 min) racing. Too hot = losing power, losing precision and more fragile.
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fanatec-csw-csr-elite-modders-thread-update-1-2014.274631/page-36#post-9254369
->2x Buhler motors (the T500 does have 1x Buhler). and a better cooling solution. All stronger wheels CSW, CSRE and T500 get too hot after some time (~15 min) racing. Too hot = losing power, losing precision and more fragile.
DrR1pper
Registered
I've not felt my T500 lose strength at all over 3+ hours of constant use but i also never experienced a reduction in ffb strength on my CSR-E (perhaps because i had set the fan to be constantly on).
That's an interesting mod vittorio, getting a pair of buhlers to attain 90% the same torque as the T500.
Is he going to sell them as a kit? If so, how much?
That's an interesting mod vittorio, getting a pair of buhlers to attain 90% the same torque as the T500.
Is he going to sell them as a kit? If so, how much?
vittorio
Registered
I didn't notice that too with my CSR-E first, because the power is slowly degrading with heat. With newer firmware it's more noticeable because after some temperature treshold the firmware reduces power to 80% to safe the motors too. But after I knew the heating problem it was very clear for me that FFB loses power and precision after some time. I first was very upset about fanatec but later found out that the T500 does have the same problem. It's a theoretical problem. Maybe the new T500RS does have better cooling, but I think this is not solvable with simple fans (1 fan CSRE, 2 fans CSW ...) -> something basically more efficient is needed like watercooling or cooling the motors from inside.
AFAIK he will sell it as a kit and there is no price yet.
AFAIK he will sell it as a kit and there is no price yet.
vittorio
Registered
Oh, interesting thread, i have something to weigh in on this thread (better late than never?) because i have both!
Long story short.....get the T500 RS with the Ferrari 458 rim = amazing!
My CSR-E broke for the second time in less than a year (motor failure) and it's a known fact that any CSR-E/CSW wheel IS going to break on you where the motors are concerned.
...
Just noticed that my CSR-E motors are again dying, for the 2nd time. I too recommend the T500 RS. Fanatec really has too offer a solution for this dying motor problem, this is not acceptable. On the other side my CSP V1 and CSS SQ are working really good. Oh well.
Vittorio - see this thread on the motor issues. There are some interesting things in the works from some modders.
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...e-modders-thread-update-1-2014.274631/page-38
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...e-modders-thread-update-1-2014.274631/page-38
DrR1pper
Registered
Jamie Shorting
Registered
Fanatec is hit or miss. Same with their customer service. You just never know what you're going to get. I've got a fanatec wheel but wouldn't recommend them to anyone.
DrR1pper
Registered
I'm loving my t500 more with each use.
I was honestly considering the Accuforce sim wheel when i had the csr-elite but after having this wheel for a while now just keeps on reaffirming i just don't think i need one....ever.
I was lucky enough to try Adrian's Bodhnar wheel for a few hours during christmas and i've got to say that despite the bodhnar wheel ultimately being a better wheel because it can produce a LOT more force....i'm very content with the amount of force output from the t500. It's the linearity and consistency that impresses me most with this wheel (coming from the csr-elite)....i kid you not, i have 100% confidence in the feeling of the car with this wheel where as maybe only up to 50% at most (depending on car and track) on the csr-elite. It's not because the t500 produces more force (but it does...more than double!) because i actually use it with about the same maximum force output i had on the csr-elite. It's that there is absolutely no ffb deadzones at any point around a track. The wheel doesn't go 100% loose around a corner and then suddenly kicks back in some force. It's as if the wheels responsiveness (to counter rotate itself) is proportional to the amount of ffb sent to the wheel on the csr-elite....where-as these are two completely seperate entities on the t500. So when the (t500) wheel is generating pretty much 0% ffb force/torque because that's what the physics are calculating at some point on track in the car....the wheel is still as reactive to turning itself as it would be if the ffb force/torque was 100%. I hope that makes sense.
I was honestly considering the Accuforce sim wheel when i had the csr-elite but after having this wheel for a while now just keeps on reaffirming i just don't think i need one....ever.
I was lucky enough to try Adrian's Bodhnar wheel for a few hours during christmas and i've got to say that despite the bodhnar wheel ultimately being a better wheel because it can produce a LOT more force....i'm very content with the amount of force output from the t500. It's the linearity and consistency that impresses me most with this wheel (coming from the csr-elite)....i kid you not, i have 100% confidence in the feeling of the car with this wheel where as maybe only up to 50% at most (depending on car and track) on the csr-elite. It's not because the t500 produces more force (but it does...more than double!) because i actually use it with about the same maximum force output i had on the csr-elite. It's that there is absolutely no ffb deadzones at any point around a track. The wheel doesn't go 100% loose around a corner and then suddenly kicks back in some force. It's as if the wheels responsiveness (to counter rotate itself) is proportional to the amount of ffb sent to the wheel on the csr-elite....where-as these are two completely seperate entities on the t500. So when the (t500) wheel is generating pretty much 0% ffb force/torque because that's what the physics are calculating at some point on track in the car....the wheel is still as reactive to turning itself as it would be if the ffb force/torque was 100%. I hope that makes sense.
Sorry, missed that - thanks for pointing that out.
Regarding wheel FFB strength - there is a difference between how much force a wheel can produce vs. having practical long-term use, i.e., reliability. The T500RS seems to have a huge advantage in that area. I may eventually purchase a T500RS to replace my aging G25 if my CSW motors give out. For now, I'm really enjoying the CSW FFB but, I can only compare to my previous Logitech wheels.
Regarding wheel FFB strength - there is a difference between how much force a wheel can produce vs. having practical long-term use, i.e., reliability. The T500RS seems to have a huge advantage in that area. I may eventually purchase a T500RS to replace my aging G25 if my CSW motors give out. For now, I'm really enjoying the CSW FFB but, I can only compare to my previous Logitech wheels.