Texture maps and color saturation

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Tosch, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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  2. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    Here is a little video to show what happens to your color in an hdr environment. There are 6 different tones of yellow (rgb 200,194,35 to rgb 250,244,35). At a certain angle they all look the same. That's why a lot of stuff looks like a comic book. You loose all details of the textures.
    There is a difference between darken a texture and desaturate a texture.
    RGB 220,214,35 reduce brightness in PS by 30 results in RGB 190,184,5
    RGB 220,214,35 reduce saturation in PS by 30 results in RGB 192,187,62

    HDR profile is "automation".



    Sorry William for misuse your beautiful track. At least you can see I work on it. :D
     
  3. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    When you're creating textures in Photoshop or GIMP or whatever, the colors that you're seeing are in gamma space--to match your monitor. When you save your texture in DDS, it's assumed that the textures are in gamma space as well (gamma space = sRGB). So 50% gray is actually 180, not 128. That was kind of a crap explanation, see below for better explanations.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fb9_KgCo0noxROKN4iT8ntTbx913e-t4Wc2nMRWPzNk/edit?usp=sharing - See: "Linear space and gamma", and again, towards the bottom in the Tips & Techniques section.
     
  4. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    That's fine, good examples of textures where I hardly bothered to look at values in some places ;)
     
  5. Major_Parts

    Major_Parts Registered

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    Thanks for sticking with this, but I'm afraid it's all too much for me to get my old, knackered head around.
    That video won't play for some reason.
     
  6. zonder

    zonder Registered

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    Hey, so someone mentioned about Physically Based Shading, are we able with correct settings in shader achieve graphics like this
    [​IMG]
    ?
     
  7. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Of course :)
     
  8. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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  9. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    Actually...no, we're not. For the sole reason that we don't have convoluted environment maps (i.e. EM's with "roughness" built into them); heck, I don't even think we have mip-mapped EM's--afaik, anyway--which would provide a decent-enough estimate for 'rough EM's'.
     
  10. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    I don't see anything we can't do really... I have seen environment mipmap bias in the shaders if I'm correct, roughness control we don't exactly have but in this example you don't exactly need it either. Nothing you see there is something we can't do, given we can do blurry envmaps, which I think is possible.

    edit;
    Sadly I was wrong about blurred envmaps :(
    However, with just under two hours I got this result, obviously it desperately needs more work, but the trick is a good specular map in here (which it isn't right now :) )
    We can only hope for more control with the way reflections are handled, might not be that much of a problem for the coders, priorities aside obviously. I know it's not the same result as above, but putting some proper time in, with the current way of things, we should get very close, when there is time for the roughness maps to be tied into reflections, it'll be no question anymore whether something like this is possible.


    [​IMG]


    So yes, the notion that we can either control the roughness of the reflection by using a map, would be awesome, but not the holy grail (still have to put the time in). Simply controlling the mipmap value for the reflected map, would also be great to have, the latter being the simplest to add, but not the one you should want with ultimately.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  11. zonder

    zonder Registered

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    Interesting, is more control over material reflectance planned as a feature or is it down to custom build/mod shaders?
    @wgeuze - Nice quick wheel
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2014
  12. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    No, you can have reflections on anything as-is. However, they're purely specular (i.e. mirror-like) reflections. In order to get something to look like the image you posted, you need 'glossy' reflections (i.e. "rough" reflections). In 'most' if not all physically-based rendering engines, the environment map is diffused / roughed-up / blurred and stored in the lower-level mips. Unfortunately, the environment maps (cubemaps) that are created dynamically in the sim do not even have mip-maps, which by themselves, in a pinch, can be used to approximate the 'roughed-up' (a.k.a. convolved/convoluted/whatever is grammatically correct) versions.
     
  13. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Yes, we very much need those, we're halfway there anyway! :)
     
  14. myself9

    myself9 Registered

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    Which method produces the best results? Darken the image or desaturate the image?
     
  15. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Anyone use Quixel tools?

    How do we convert textures to HDR compatible ones?
     
  16. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    I think we're at the point now where if it looks good in-game, that's all that matters. Most people should be seeing the same things these days. With the tonemapping being consistent, and not dependent on the automatic exposure, but on the time of day, you won't really get instances where something should look radically 'wrong'.

    Just use Curves / adjustment layers to get it to look how you'd like.

    Hope this helps!
     
  17. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    This is a very basic tutorial, which is useful just to understand how's working.

    You can bypass the second step, if you don't have any hard light and/or internal shadows in the picture (like a picture taken on overcast).


    ORIGINAL PICTURE (CG TEXTURE)

    View attachment 16747

    REMOVING HARD LIGHTS ( you can bypass this one if you don't have this problem)

    Copy main texture and Invert the Layer copy

    View attachment 16748

    Mix with original background using Soft Light. This will reduce the hard light and shadows inside the texture.

    View attachment 16749

    HISTOGRAM FIX

    Open the Histogram and set channels to Luminance

    View attachment 16750

    Add a Adjustment Level on the top of the layers stack
    Double click above the Level layer
    Reduce the output level to reduce the “MEAN” value in the luminance histogram down to something around 70 and 90 (this depends on the physics
    material involved). Never exceed that number, nor using anything above 100.

    View attachment 16751


    SATURATION FIX

    Open the Histogram and set channels to Colors
    Add a Hue/Sat adjustment layer on the top of the layers stack
    Tune down the Sat to remove just a bit of color if the main texture (background) can be considered correct in terms of saturation and exposure.
    At this point you have a potential albedo maps to be tested ingame;

    View attachment 16752

    View attachment 16753



     
  18. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    Thank you for the quick tuto.
     
  19. Liquid4653

    Liquid4653 Registered

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    Thanks for the info Tuttle, appreciate you taking the time.
     
  20. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Many thanks for the tutorial!! Now if you could pin it? :D
     

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