Lazza
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That pack has 10 cars. Its normal price is 30 euros.
Previously there were 2 separate GT3 packs, each with 5 cars, and each 15 euros normally.
Hope that explains it.
Steam Summer Sale 2020!
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That pack has 10 cars. Its normal price is 30 euros.
Previously there were 2 separate GT3 packs, each with 5 cars, and each 15 euros normally.
Hope that explains it.
Lazza
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As I said, there would have been expectations on what a sale would have done. What has happened is different. So there's a reaction.
Of course there's usually some reaction to just about anything, and we can argue all day about how much something is or should be worth and how it compares to x, y, or z. I'm just trying to explain the situation, because this isn't the 'usual' "how come people can get this cheaper than I did?" complaint.
Lethal
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just complementing, without any problems, the GT3 P. and C.P stay together, but keep the old packages. It would be a better strategy where everyone wins, both the S397 and its new and old customers!
Lazza
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Yes. Unfortunately, and I see the reasoning here, the whole 'pack' system can be confusing, and someone buying the game and wanting endurance stuff will probably end up buying all 3 packs in that case
The whole system is a bit of a mess, and from the moment you buy the content the cars are all separate in the game as well - which leads to further confusion. I would imagine clearer descriptions and labelling would help, if more wholesale changes aren't immediately possible. If the pack removal has been done for clarity then I get it, and I'm not going to wail about being hard done by as another #rF2SupporterLookAtMe, but it's not ideal.
As said earlier, if the 'all-content-required' rule didn't apply, and/or the competition system was up and active and compelling us to get all content as it comes out so we can join the thousands racing online, this would affect hardly anyone.
Usualy I would agree with you and I have told the same thing to other people in the past, but this situation makes the desicion to buy new content harder for a good fraction of the community with this sale, because missing content for them is suddenly more expensive - once again, we aren't even talking about having normal prices here that we had before the sale. I would buy the Two Strong pack for 7,99 right away now, instead I have to spend 10 Euro now in any case to get those two cars.
This isn't some wha wha but basic economy principles and if you have ever taken a look at a demand curve for a product you might understand where the problem is. This isn't our gamble but a S397 gamble and it might even hurt them more than it does any good for them. I don't know how you feel, but when the comp system get's released I want to have some fun online pick up racing with as many people as possible and not with 10 people and getting as much of the content onto the hard drives of as many as possible is critical for that. And how do we make the game more attractive? By reshuffling DLCs and making it more expensive than it allready is? By making buying desicions harder? By making the future of the content arrangement as uncertain and untransparent as possible? By damaging the image of the product and the publisher/developer?
Let's just asume that of the 500k owners (according to Steamspy) 10 percent have now to spend more money to get stuff like the Two Strong pack wich they will do less likely if prices are rising. That's practicaly allmost 400000 Euro for S397 down the drain, while they could earn that money easily while still attracting new players. And you might like it or not, this affects development and future licensing. Money doesn't sit as loose in the pockets with the employment situation as before either, just to put that into perspective.
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Alexander76
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I'm shocked at how great it is to drive a Corvette at Le Mans.This is the only SIM where I got the rapture and ecstasy of just driving 10 laps.This is fantastic!Come on, guys,for complete happiness, we need multiplayer)
Patrick Schumacher
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Bit funny. S397 changes the packs and the people who do not own the full content come around the corner and starting to claim they would have bought the old packs now, but have not been willing doing that during the entire last year. Interesting 
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...No, this option doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately. But I know it used to be the case.
A few months ago, there was a hack allowing to go around the limitation, but I wouldn't count on it.
I see nothing funny in S397 being the first studio to make DLC content more expensive for their customers during Steam summer sale, but I must be a complete idiot to expect something else. Now if updates and fixes to existing content or the core game would have been delivered at a faster rate or at least in a timely fashion you would see more people not waiting for sales and instead purchasing content right away, because they know that their purchase has something meaningfull. Sadly whenever they released new content there were issues and delays upon delays for stuff like the UI and comp system so it's understandable that people get more careful. Sometimes it helps to take off the rose tinted glasses.Bit funny. S397 changes the packs and the people who do not own the full content come around the corner and starting to claim they would have bought the old packs now, but have not been willing doing that during the entire last year. Interesting
Bit funny. S397 changes the packs and the people who do not own the full content come around the corner and starting to claim they would have bought the old packs now, but have not been willing doing that during the entire last year. Interesting
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm usually not buying all the packs in one go.
Sim is an expensive hobby, for one. Then I wouldn't have the time to go in depth with each car if I had 20 at the same time, I would quickly check a few ones and probably forget about some others. Not sure I'll mix all genres at the same time either. Finally, I'm cautious and only buying more products from a developer if what I see is good.
So spacing the purchases makes sense to me. Of course, if some of the packs disappear in-between, that's a lost opportunity for the publisher to sell them.
Perhaps those larger packs make sense for customers who haven't bought any of the individual cars, or smaller packs. And especially if the sales is on, when those packs will be at their full price, that'll be something else...
CrimsonEminence
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I own all the content, that was repackaged btw., and still think, it's miserable, what S397 did there.^^Bit funny. S397 changes the packs and the people who do not own the full content come around the corner and starting to claim they would have bought the old packs now, but have not been willing doing that during the entire last year. Interesting
And where is the problem with waiting for a sale? S397 changes packaging right before this sale, i didn't even noticed it first, no announcement for this move before the dev blog, Interesting.
Stop defending this action, by blaming the user.
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Lethal
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i value my moneyBit funny. S397 changes the packs and the people who do not own the full content come around the corner and starting to claim they would have bought the old packs now, but have not been willing doing that during the entire last year. Interesting
stonec
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That's not how it works and those numbers are completely unrealistic. Most of the active followers of rF2 have probably already bought the two strong pack if they have the GTE pack. The specific case where you own GTE and not two strong pack must be a small percentage, but ok, let's go with 10%. Of those 10%:
- How many really had any intentions to begin with to buy the two strong pack at any time in the future?
- The fraction of the 10% that intended to buy two strong pack, of those how many are really going to care that they now have to pay 1-2 euro more in order to get those two missing cars?
- Don't you think there will be income gained as well when new customers buy one larger pack instead of picking and choosing from the smaller ones? (the obvious answer is yes, that's why larger packs are sold, in order to attract people to buy content in bulk)
I cannot fathom people don't see that larger packs are the only way to limit fragmentation as long as the requirement is to own all car content running on a server. It's a complete no-brainer and will make life easier for everyone. I'm a long time supporter and I frankly couldn't care less that I already owned part of the content I now decided to buy again. Those couple of euros lost means nothing if that will go towards providing a better online competition format in the future since that will benefit me as well.
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Let's have this scenario. I have few friends that I'm trying to bring into the hobby. But, since they were just starting, they didn't buy the whole set of GT3 cars, and were waiting for sale. Some, because of my "hyping" the track and the experience, bid buy Endurance cars, but, again, not the whole set. Both groups were waiting for sale, thinking, " I'll buy with discount, if not, I'll buy with price as it is". Only one guy is joining in completely new.
So, at the moment the whole group is unhappy - old guys because they are not willing to complete the set paying more, new guy because he cannot use all new cars he bought, and me - because I tried to hype the sim and told them "join in, buy just one pack and complete the set later". Besides awkward feelings, result is - no-one is racing using all the cars.
PS. I was thinking that S397's best strategy for competition system would be to bring maximum number of players to complete set or, as minimum, to one of the half-sets. This would reduce number of server config variations they have to run.
So, at the moment the whole group is unhappy - old guys because they are not willing to complete the set paying more, new guy because he cannot use all new cars he bought, and me - because I tried to hype the sim and told them "join in, buy just one pack and complete the set later". Besides awkward feelings, result is - no-one is racing using all the cars.
PS. I was thinking that S397's best strategy for competition system would be to bring maximum number of players to complete set or, as minimum, to one of the half-sets. This would reduce number of server config variations they have to run.
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David O'Reilly
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One other option is that Studio 397 figured that in the wake of the world's most watched sim race (LeMans) that there might likely be spike in demand (along with a greater price elasticity of demand) for those packages and indeed the core product.
A good opportunity to grow revenues.
If that did happen/does happen I am pleased for them. A financially stronger Studio 397 is good news for me.
A good opportunity to grow revenues.
If that did happen/does happen I am pleased for them. A financially stronger Studio 397 is good news for me.
Lazza
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The overall price for new players is basically unchanged, for the 7 cars in the new Endurance bundle. It's easier, because they're all in the same package, but the price is the same. If you mean it's a way of building on demand by making the pack bigger and more expensive, so keen new players are really forced to pay more, then sure - but if they only buy that pack they'll probably find they can't join races that include other DLC they haven't bought, and then wonder why the game can't handle that. If they want to recreate the 24hV they'll need to buy the Ferrari too. (if the packs were as before, they'd buy the Endurance Pack and the Two Strong pack [plus the Ferrari] in order to run the Le Mans field - once they work that out)
Not sure anyone questioning the pack strategy isn't happy to see S397 doing well financially [which may not even be the case, not sure we have enough players yet], but I think one thing the game needs is a strong online presence. This disparity in DLC ownership and the inability to race if you're missing a car potentially 1 person out of 50 is using, isn't helping. I think these packs should just be packs where licensing permits, don't sell those cars individually at all. If the Ferrari has to come out by itself, then explain on steam what each pack is and where the Ferrari fits in. Of course it's too late for that approach for any existing players who did buy individual cars, as they'll be in the same "buy again or pay more" boat. (I think a combination would be best - allow enough graphical audio and physics sharing to race others with non-owned cars, but sell cars in packs so someone can't just buy a single car and race forever with it)
@Comante anyone can run any car on a server, of course, but it's true that any influx of new players buying the bigger packs will quantize the player base. Those of us already here (I'm not playing the 'supporter' card, just to be clear) who didn't buy all the previous packs need to consider completing our collections while it's on sale even though it means paying full price at best (for some it means paying more than the original full price) or take a chance on what comes afterwards - and risk missing out on some online play because of non-owned cars being used. Some advance notice of a change to the existing packs could have avoided this almost entirely. As some have said you don't always win, and to some extent waiting is a gamble, but it's the first time packs have disappeared for a sale - usually the stuff that's not new just gets a discount. We didn't buy them in the first place because we didn't want them bad enough to pay full price - making them more expensive than expected isn't going to make us line up.
A killer online competition system could change the picture completely.
TheGame316
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Fact is, even with consolidation of the packs, the Ferrari has already created fragmentation. And as I forecasted earlier I think the Toyota Hypercar will fragment that class further. And you know we will most likely get the GT3 Ferrari to fragment the other main class of official content.
Packs will only work if they are planned in advance as to the content included, which is impossible in at least 1 class that S397 seem to be geared towards - LM Hypercar. In GT3/E, not impossible; but still extremely difficult to plan.
And honestly, the ONLY way I see that killer online competition system is if you have a 1 car/1 circuit requirement for joining the server. At least when it comes to paid DLC on official competition servers. On local public servers, I am not sure of a solution at the moment, maybe a server manager or managers that keeps the dedi's up to date has to purchase any content run on their server?
I honestly believe this issue is more important than the UI, than the competition system and the developers should be looking at chance of this being a possibility.
If there is no chance, the next best option would be the traditional Steam DLC method. Availability of slots shouldn't be the issue. Train Simulator has over 400. ATM we would require 53 total(8 being current packs). Bundling would an easier way to create packs. Packs would be easier to deal with when not requiring all content within said pack. Single item discounting would be easier. Easier to find from a new players perspective.
Most of all I think we need some acknowledgement of "Hey we may have messed up a little...", some explanation of what direction you are heading with this. If the options I or others have given make no sense, tell us why and what restrictions you have with the options. You have extremely passionate fans that want to see you succeed, some extremely intelligent(and I don't count myself in that group) that may have expertise in a field that could help??
It comes back to something I said early on when S397 took over the reins. The more up front and honest you are with your player base, the more trusting and loyal they will be(in any business, really...). This sale really has not helped with holding the trust of the existing playerbase so I hope we have some official word soon....otherwise it will be an interesting upcoming roadmap...
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