Steam offline mode: Uninstalls workshop item.

Just to clarify Gijs van Elderen. This is what I was more referring to. Your right, I don't get or know what a DMCA warning is and really, I don't care. But if you loose mods off your install that are removed from the Steam workshop, it's a problem!

So stands my first post here.. If Steam doesn't recognize it, It wont remove it. Yes?

 

If you bought a stolen car, you can't keep it. Blaim the guy who stole it.

 

Not the same thing at all.
When you give something to someone, you can't just claim it back when you feel like it. And what if you've paid for it?
This is "not" iRacing

 

Your right about this. But: You won't get a DCMA warning.

On the other hand if the uploader is the author. He might have a reason to remove it from the workshop. (End of league for example)

If he doesn't have a reason to remove his workshop item... well, remind me again when this happens.

 

yes, you should make a copy from the workshop cache, all files are there so you can reinstall if they get removed. To make it clear this happens with or without DMCA as far as I noticed, I already had mods removed (2 tracks, don't remember the other one, and 1 car pack that was Simtek GT3, but he added it back now) and only noticed when I wanted to use them, if the author remove from the workshop bye bye

 

For those that are curious and don't know what DMCA really stands for.
https://www.dmca.com/Solutions/view.aspx?ID=712f28a5-93f2-467b-ba92-3d58c8345a32&?ref=sol08a2

 

As with all software and digital content: "The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services." (see http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ for the whole story). This means the content you download is not yours.

That said, the fact that only content you subscribe to is downloaded and installed, and content you unsubscribe from is uninstalled and removed is a deliberate choice we made. It is an easy model for users.

 

It should ask if the user wants the content deleted first IMO. Same with workshop content update, first you have no idea what is being updated, then it can happen a minute before a league race and you are not asked if you want the item updated at that moment or not (or is there an option for this?)

 

This maybe true for Steam and subscription but not all content is firstly under any license, Not all content is downloaded through Steam. Ever if it is available there. It's also available elsewhere.

Knowing this now makes me not want to use Steam subscription ever again. It is convenient and easy but if the content is subject to being temporary it's pointless.

You must realize a lot of rFactor content we still have today and is slowly being converted to rF2 is no longer available through it's original authors. If this content was under this same conditions as your Steam content it would be just gone. lost.
As much as I hate to say/admit it, old rFactor content is and has been the main stay for rF2.
I've said this before but I'll say it again, We lost a lot of great mod teams in the earlier years of rF2 and these teams are still not coming back. This leaves new people trying to learn rF2 and old rFactor stuff converted to it. Among the new mods, the smaller of the two options, It's a low percent that are any good. Among the greater percent that are converted from other titles and platforms a smaller amount are very good as well.

If we go down your road and remove and delete old content out of rF2 what's going to be there when the next gen game whether it be from ISI, S397 or another producer going to have available. The idea of a title carrying only it's own content and none community constructed is long gone.
If this was the case from the start of rF2 and all we had was ISI content, I for one would never use the title.
I have no interest in all the old crap (60's) or open wheel style cars that make up the larger portion of rF2 content. No interest in road cars in racing games. Not that impressed with one off models. Specially when it's apart of a multi car series. To bring these cars together would be a fine thing but as we all know cars done by different teams, people are generally not competitively compatible.
ISI content is hit and miss at best. GT1, GT2, GT3 one off can't be used to mix it up even if the physics are done and test by the same people. Their just different categories.

If it wasn't for the mods (cars) that we've brought over to rF2 from rFactor, We wouldn't be using it at all.
We'd possibly be still using rFactor. rFactor isn't up to rF2 standard as far as track, real road, tyres and a few other rF2 features but it has come a long way from were ISI left it and in a lot of off track ways it's better then rF2.

So! End of the day type stuff. "IF" a mod is any good and we'll use it. I'll be repacking it under different naming so Steam want recognized it. For now and for the future. I hope others do the same. We can't afford to loose what we have when the newer stuff is so slow in coming and in far to many cases, a lower standard then we had in rFactor. This statement hurt to say but unfortunately it's proven to be.

 

I don't know if you realise that what you're describing, although true, is technically not allowed. Just because you can't find someone who created something, doesn't mean you're free to do what you want with it. It's still theirs for a time (quick google of copyright suggests life + 50-100 years; which would suggest a minimum of 50 years).

A lot of rF1 content was duplicated (basically through necessity, because that's how you installed it) and has remained 'out there' since, and probably a lot of rF2 content will go the same way although it takes a little more effort. But that doesn't mean the distribution/'publishing' system is somehow flawed and needs changing.

I'd add that personally I'd rather play rF2 with its stock content than play anything available in rF1, and that was a decision made very soon after first trying rF2 (when it was much more feature incomplete than it is now, and buggier). I don't see converted content being critical at all.

 

Yep I do. And I was a advocate of it. But it seamed over the years it's just become the norm, more and more accepted among the wider community. Wrong or right people were hungry for content and were willing to ignore the copy write.
Considering that at the time ISI content or the lack there of was the main driver in this but also you need to remember there were good mod teams around then to and they were trying to work on rF2 for a long time. Ones that had already published for either rFactor or SimBin's GTR and GTR2 or all of them. None or very few published for rF2 and over the years the members moved on to other things.

Looking at the join dates we both joined this forum on exactly the same day so you've see what I have here. No telling how long in sim racing before that.
If you or anyone else wants to be a advocate for the Steam system, That's your choice. It all sounds a little to iRacing to me.

 

As I said, I'm aware that's always happened. But the workaround isn't difficult if you still want to keep/modify stuff that isn't yours (no more than a simple file copy initially), while if the system were changed so that any content uploaded ever to the workshop was guaranteed to always be available, you might either discourage people putting up things they don't want to be around forever, or end up with thousands upon thousands of mods/tracks that are sub-par quality and long abandoned.

I think rather than suggesting a system be changed to make it easier for disowned content to be worked with by others in the future, you should perhaps ask why people are removing things they put on the workshop in the first place. Maybe their reasons are ones you should respect (for online play at least), or they don't understand how it works and the simple fix is to make it more obvious.

 

I guess your aware that this debate could just go on and on. Though I do love a good debate as long as it stays in the realms of reality unlike quite a few that start here I'm not sure how the Admin see it.
So in saying that I'll keep it short.
Sub standard content disappears on it's own when a better version become available.
Modders know this and aren't worried about leaving stuff up there as long as it's being used. If you try hard enough you can still find NASCAR 2003, F1Challenge and others out there. DL links brake and file share services remove unused files/folders after a time. I don't know of any mods being remove by the authors themselves. Not to say it hasn't happened of cause.
Keeping stuff isn't necessarily to modify it. You just want to keep it in it's original form. But in saying that, how many leagues change out car liveries, Track billboards and in some cases change physics to better suit their requirements? And that's on current up to date content. Not old and half forgotten stuff. Isn't this seen as a breach of copy write. Most would argue Yes.

The main issue here though is that a mod can be removed by Steam at any time without notice. A example is show here (Post #25). The modder more then likely didn't know it would be removed from all his subscribers when he took it off Steam. Merely to update it I'd guess being it's back now.
There's a number of bad scenarios that I can think of during this time for leagues or LAN groups.
Trying to make good argument and keeping it short really doesn't work well. But I hope I have, to a degree.

 

Yeah, but that's not the same as re-releasing it. But that's another discussion entirely.

So the root cause, really, is the modder not knowing that. If he did he wouldn't have removed it. But absolutely I can see the point - let's say for whatever reason a modder became disillusioned with the game, he could upset tens of leagues by removing content they're all using to race.

Look at another angle: we could debate where you need to draw the line when it comes to IP and copyright, but if the game serves - or continues to allow you to use having already served it to you - a mod that has been identified as 'illegal', potentially the game is entering dangerous territory. If that questionable content is instead removed and unavailable, except where users have themselves copied and repackaged the files, the responsibility is completely off the game and with the user.