So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    To be honest, every single car that was included in the original NKP had the worse setups you could imagine. Understeer city in every single one of them.

    For instance, take 1 click of rear wing of the Zonda and it suddenly gets quite alot more lively.
    On top of that, most of the cars in the game now are road cars which are also always setup for safety which is understeer. When you try to induce oversteer going 70kmh while doing full throttle and putting on 180° of steering lock you're gonna have to try something different.
     
  2. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Anyone here using TrackIR? Do you know if it's possible to allow more head movement (head rotation, forward, sideways)? I can only look 30° to the right and left. Also, when moving my head forward to look closer on the dashboard, the camera will move sideways instead of forward :confused:

    I have tried to change the HEAD_MAX_DEGREES from 60 to 120 in camera_onboard config file but nothing changes at all...
     
  3. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Oh, what do you know..... freaking input lag like crazy in that first video. People love to look the other way and ignore the lag.
     
  4. Mulero

    Mulero Registered

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    Expert Mode, serial setup without any changes in all cars. The only help is the ABS, as the game keeps activated on cars that carry it in reality.

    Anyone can take the test. Cause oversteer only with the accelerator it´s practically impossible in most cars.
     
  5. costamesa

    costamesa Registered

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    This changed the game for me a lot. physics are of course the same, but your perception changes a lot with setting off.. I cant say it is better or worse though, it is just "different"..
     
  6. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Was there a need for another AC topic? There's already one for AC and pC here.
     
  7. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    There are quite alot of cases in that clip you posted where it's almost impossible to create oversteer by the way you are driving it... Have you tried the same things in actual road cars? Going into a corner at 80-90kmh with +90° steering lock on, stomping on the throttle and get oversteer? Instead of what really happens which is a nose that lifts and your car going straight on? I agree there is something weird with the E30 alltho I really think it's mostly because the gearing or engine power is off but I think you have gotten a bit too used to some sims where there is infinite amount of front grip and everything revolves around managing oversteer.
    Why didn't you film the track cars like the KTM?
    Must be his computer, I just tried the exact same thing while filming it with an iPhone and it's perfect in sync without any fps caps or anything. Just running unlimited at 180fps on Mugello in the E30.
    Did the same with the Clio in RF2 afterwards and results were as good as identical.
     
  8. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Thanks.
    I don't really believe people who say bad things about AC, because Kunos is top-notch, but that video was just sad.
     
  9. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Do you know if they ever finished the fake DTMs before working on this? I was more interested in those, honestly.
     
  10. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    Intresting post from Aris on their forum about the tires

     
  11. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    This guy probably has VSync on or his machine is running lower framerates. Lower framerates shouldn't cause lag though (assuming VSync is off). It doesn't in rF1/2 or iR. But even on your machine at 180fps there is still a large frame buffer, it just isn't as noticeable because the time between frames at 180 is much shorter than say 60fps. For example 8 frames at 60fps = 133ms while 8 frames at 180fps = 44ms. Detecting 44ms of lag with a low speed camera (30fps iPhone) is going to be hard. For the hell of it, set your max framerate (FPS_CAP is now in the GUI due to all the lag complaints) to 170... or whatever your lowest rate is. The buffer will go away and your lag should drop. Yes I know 44ms isn't a lot of lag but it can be reduced to 22ms or so with no drawbacks.

    I just find it comical that so many people defend AC to death yet most of them haven't even noticed the ridiculous lag it has if you don't have a machine that can push 180fps or more. In my eyes they lose credibility when they don't notice the lag. FYI, 133ms at 200mph = 39 feet. So at 200mph the physics engine has placed the car 39 feet ahead of what your eyes see. This is a big problem.
     
  12. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I almost lost it a few weeks ago on an almost bone stock (slightly grippier and wider tyres, and possibly rims) mid 2000's Toyota Corolla. I was taking a long right hander at about 140 or so km/h, freeway ramp.

    I had the throttle hard down, going towards the turn-in. On turn-in I let off the throttle, applied a smooth slight touch of braking, probably like 10%-15% just to get the nose down a bit and for confidence/safety/risk lol. I was close to general tyre limits as I could hear tyre squeel on entry and turn in (rather than just mid corner where it's easy to get squeel and understeer once you crank over the steering wheel). So, as I turned in EVER SO SLIGHTLY, I was barely applying lock AND EVEN THEN the high speed nature and the unlimited amount of real life pysics fidelity was about to rotate the rear end and spin my "safe" and normally extremely understeery road car around into a spin. The instant I felt that bit of rotation I immediately went back on the throttle to about 25% to settle and plant the rear down, and then went around the corner at pretty high speed. I got a touch of understeer at the exit, and so as I lifted to from around 50% throttle to around 25% throttle I felt the rear get just a tiny bit light and I knew at that exit if I lifted really abruptly and completely I could have EASILY gotten into bad shape with the rear because I was already near the limits, on the edge, and I could feel the tiny movements of the rear wanting to step out, or not step out, depending on tiny little differences in my steering, brake & throttle application.

    So you see, even in real life, on "safe" understeery street cars, there are so many variables, so complex physics dynamics at work that you can easily get into bad shape if you really dont concentrate on your steering/brake/throttle application when you are pushing really hard. THIS, is what's lacking in AC. 85% sim with a 15% saftey zone/dumbing down area when you are really driving the tyres/chassis near the limits. All those micro-movements and slides that MAY OR MAY NOT happen depending on what you do with the car, how good you are at feeling all the chassis/tyre/suspension dynamics at work, etc. that entire section is almost completely missing in AC, it's definitely way, way more toned down and forgiving than real life.

    In AC it's just more like, grip grip grip, slide car, correct, grip grip grip, slide car correct, instead of what I just explained above about all the tiny differences and fideltiy going on in real life, and I get this in other sims too, even though AT TIMES it may be oversensitive/punishing, ATLEAST it's still there being represented in the handling dynamics/physics.
     
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  13. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    You do know you're now comparing the very logical handling of a front wheel drive car to (atleast when we're still talking about AC) a well made, well balanced 50/50 rear wheel drive correct?
    Anyway, take the Abarth and drive in the same (very dangerous way) you did and it does exactly the same. That's why you never brake at high speeds in a front wheel drive car without having some drive.
    A rear wheel drive car doesnt have that issue because the rear wheels will always get some torque from the engine (unless you really cant drive and go trough corners with the clutch pressed in) which keeps the car stable.
    Modern FWD cars (like the Golf 6 or newest Astras etc) do have this issue alot less (losing the rear while aggresivly lifting the throttle mid turn) because they don't just cut off the power but the ECU smooths all that stuff out. My BMW pitches forward like crazy when I lift the throttle coming from full throttle cus of the immense engine braking while when I drive my sisters new a3 you can barely feel it when you lift the throttle because the ECU keeps feeding some power to the engine so you don't feel that.


    @Noel: Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but first you say that you need high FPS to limit the lag in AC and then you advise to limit my FPS at a lower FPS to reduce the lag? Am I reading that wrong :D
     
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  14. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Actually I just suck at explaining. What I am saying is there is a large frame buffer regardless of your framerate. The difference is at high frame rates the buffer is the same "size" but shorter "time". If you set a FPS_CAP the buffer is dramatically reduced if not eliminated. I am not suggesting you lower the crap out of your rate. Just cap it at your minimum. I say this because the buffer returns if you drop below the FPS_CAP. So the trick is to cap it a few frames below your minimum rate. With the FPS_CAP you don't need to run 180+ anymore. Even at 60fps you will not have lag. I cap at 60 myself which also combats tearing (I have a 60hz LCD).

    At 180fps 1 frame lasts 5.5ms:
    1000/180=5.5

    At 60fps 1 frame lasts 16.6ms:
    1000/60=16.6

    So if you don't have FPS_CAP enabled and you end up with an 8 frame buffer you have this lag at 180fps:
    5.5*8=44.4

    And an 8 frame buffer at 60fps you have this much lag:
    16.6*8=133ms

    But if you set FPS_CAP and can get it closer to a 3 frame buffer (hard to really measure without a very high speed camera) you are in much better shape.
     
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  15. kro388th

    kro388th Registered

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    Ok ill chime in here Im not into comparisons but I have only one other sim to compare with so here's where im at with my sim racing and AC .

    The game is allot of fun for sure .. amazing gpx/psyx .. However coming from a year of rf2 psyx its (all cars) very easy to drive and seems a little canned .. I think rf2 has the bar set pretty hi as far as being "alive" with its dynamic road , weather and all around racing feel , I think we have deferent thoughts on realism going on here .. I comb the forums daily ,I see a pattern to allot of the posts with ..90% of drivers coming from rf1,GTR2, NKP , Or any console game etc.. holding AC as the holey grail of psyx ,amazing ,best ever .etc.. with only say 5 % or less of rf2 drivers drinking the cool aide, I believe this is because rf2 has so much more going on with the changing environment/weather/rain ,rubber build up, FFB, night racing, tire deformation,flat spotting,ectt, ( there will be no night driving in AC, headlights work but road surface and surroundings will not reflect light, not in the code ,wont be in the code, kunos himself told me this) ! ... When i asked at AC forums about their rubber/tire stuff he explained to me that yes there will be a rubber build up but its a canned program that 'paints rubber' in a pre determined spot on every track ,same spot every time as laps build up, also it does not effect grip , that explains why you can drive "OFF" the line and never loose any grip or time .. i rely noticed this when my kid had real close times to me with the xbox controller! he was all over the track but managed to stay within .xxx of my times with the G27.. This part of the game is just 1 part of what, to me, separates it from rf2’s dynamic experience It’s a sim/cade approach , It will be ‘good enough’ as they said ,also I think it will be good for all out player numbers as it will allow lots of people to be fast with out allot of training resulting in closer racing as well as easy pick up races that’s if they get the MP side down ! .. But again if your coming from rf1 gtr,nkp etc ..you wont even know where the bar has been set coming from rf2 its some how missing something for me as far as how I feel when driving ..theirs no ‘wonder or un known’ like there is in rf2 , in rf2 you determine the outcome ,if you take a deferent line after time it will build rubber on that line and grip will increase like irl .. that’s not their in AC maybe its the canned environment that might be portraying this to me IDK .. is it a big deal ? maybe not but its those little things that the rf2 user will notice ..

    It ,for now has good performance , only a few cars to render but they look amazing and react on track in an amazing way as far as visual psyxs ,they don’t rely translate to the driver/FFB as well as they “look” but they are working on that , Its not as heavy on the PC as rf2 but it only has 1/3 the data to process, on a good note this means less data to send/receive/in MP so I hope they nail the MP !

    Don’t get me wrong I am impressed with the game ,driving the car is an amazing experience , the cars feel amazing and react as you would expect a car to react but as Matt S so eloquently explained on another forum, once ,if you can find it , on the edge, you just cant “Dance “ with the car like you can in rf2 .. I know what he means its something you just wont feel unless you spent any time with rf2 ..Im not trying to be a fan boy , although it might look that way, lol I'm just sharing my thoughts after ,according to steam, 32 hrs of AC !

    Good or Bad ? both are great ! that's not the question as people will get from it what they will ,it will be very popular i feel , I enjoy driving it and will be enjoying it as it develops !!..
    Looking forward to some online racing in these amazing cars !! I believe it’s a must have for all sim racers ! is it the holy grail of sim’s ?...... NO ... just falls a bit short for this sim driver .. For me if we could have the perfect sim it would be a mix of both !!
     
  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Re.AC My PC runs AC nicely above 120fps, so I cap at 121 ( I use 120hz monitors )

    There is still some lag, about 200fps seems to sort it,

    However reducing the resolution down to an out of focus looking stupid low level this eliminates it too, even if fps is capped at a low rate ( like 60 )
     
  17. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    The previous one was closed once people started to act with less respect for the opinions of others.
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17003-Assetto-Corsa-Respectful-Comparison
    I'm sure this thread will create points not already covered, won't be a cause of frustration to those with differing opinions, unable to accept that they can't change others minds, and won't end up getting closed. Note the sarcasm. :)
     
  18. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    This is verified? The rubbered in line is static and doesn't effect grip? This is what GTR2 and Race07 have (except there is a little less grip offline with those). No night driving ever? That means there will be no endurance racing beyond 12 hour races. AC will be no better than rF1. I have always said that once AC has rain I'll buy it. But with no dynamic line.... I guess I won't. :confused:
     
  19. RodBarker

    RodBarker Registered

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    Forums are not like vacuum cleaners that suck you into a thread , they have buttons that you must click on to go inside :) . I like like both games , I also like discussion if people present facts and keep things civil because you learn things .

    I think AC is very good for how early it is in development , maybe the extra grip is good marketing strategy to start out from , slowly reduce the grip to reality will probably catch more buyers in early phase than starting on ice with over cooked physics where you cant do a lap . From what I can see the potential in AC is there how they tweak it over the next year or 2 will define it , right now its has its trainer wheels on so its unfair to compare to the current RF2 , I think its better than what the first update build was in RF2 and if it makes the same level of improvements that RF2 has over 2 yrs then it will be an excellent race game .

    Both games a credit to the dev teams and when they both finished we are the winners .
     
  20. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    I remember some commenters got a bit pissed off with that. There was a pic on the AC website somewhere that was captioned "Dynamic rubber line build up" or something like that, pic of some corner with a dark rubber line through it, but only on the correct line.
    Pissed them off as it turns out it won't affect grip and is pre determined as to where it goes. So they only dynamic thing about it is that it goes from no line, to having a line on track. Guessing they feel that's almost false advertisement or something XD
     
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