Sim Racing servo ffb systems : OSW & Bodnar

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adrianstealth, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Beano

    Beano Registered

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    Hey Guys, just for the record, I have indicated it was a stepper many months ago, over at iRacing though, must have been 5-6 months ago....

    The fact that the motor would stay cool for 30 minutes under stall torque triggered it for me.

    Anyway, just thought I will mention that, as at that point in time no one at iRacing suspected it to be a stepper, all thought it was an AC permanent magnet servo system.

    Cheers,
    Beano
     
  2. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    http://www.racingfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=48669

    But AFAIK the big MIGE was not tested.

    The possibility of using the 10015 had arised on the French forum also, because of the bigger Peak torque with the same rotor inertia.
    But you need more ampere to drive it (so it means a different power supply and probably the Argon driver instead of the IONI).
    I asked over the forum before ordering the motor and the consensus was that in theory the 10015 should be marginally better, but on the other hand that motor has never been used on an OSW so, since I'm not an electrical engine expert, is better for me to stay with the 10010.

    If rotor inertia is really a concern for you, better go with the Kollmorgens...but consider that I've read a lot of comments by people who have an OSW that they need to simulate some "friction" with the motor because of the very low rotational inertia...

    BTW: do you know that on the iRacing forum an user is selling OSW Kits with MIGE 10010 for less than a grand?
     
  3. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    If only he would get onto other places than that forum, this could get really, REALLY big.

    (and payments in installments :D )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  4. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    penny has dropped

    :cool:
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    That's why i'm interested in the small MiGe. Less rotor inertia than the big, but still quite a bit more than the Lenze and Kollmorgens.

    So theoretically the small "15" should be able to handle more amps to more easily drive to to 30Nm (to match the big MiGe), while having the lower rotor inertia of the small MiGe. I wonder if any of the other guys on here can take a look at the specs of the "15" version of the small MiGe and give some input? It really seems like the best of the small and large combined into the ultimate MiGe :)

    From what I've read, and like you said, I don't think I want to go with the insanely low rotor intertia of the Lenze and Kollmorgen; that's why I'm so interested in the two small MiGe's because they are in the middle - more rotor intertia than the Lenze and Kollmorgen but less than the big Mige.

    As soon as I get this whole small Mige "10" VS small MiGe "15" VS big MiGe thing figured out, I'll be ordering one very soon.

    Can you provide a link to the forum on iRacing? Maybe I should stop worrying and analyzing everything and just shut-up and buy one, lol.
     
  6. PaulG

    PaulG Registered

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    They're are numerous threads that never leave the front page of the Hardware forum. Of course, you need to be a iracing member to view those. Not sure if you are.
     
  7. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    I ordered the small MIGE from China last week.

    Search for Ollie Aina...http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/3312320.page
     
  8. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ya but Paul, why is the small MiGe being over-amped (or over-voltaged or whatever) in order to achieve 20 Nm? I thought 20 Nm was max with stock power on the small MiGe (like 30 Nm is max with stock power for the big MiGe)...


    Thanks for the link, Led566.
     
  9. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I just realised what would be interesting is if someone with and AF would kindly perform the step2/linearity test with the wheelcheck.exe program. First using the default settings (I think the time duration per torque run is set to 300ms by default) then repeat it with a few different time durations (e.g. 100ms and 10-50ms). If the theory is correct, we should expect to see a shift to the right of the point where the slope suddenly changes to a shallower one.

    Anyone up for it please?
     
  10. Beano

    Beano Registered

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    Hello Spin,
    Whilst I have over-driven the small MiGe in comparison tests vs my large MiGe back about 6 months ago, almost all guys I know have them limited at peak AMP or lower in the Argon drive settings.

    The upper limit is 12.76A peak of sine, that will equate to 20NM.

    I have done quite extensive testing on the large and small MiGe as well as the Lenze, and the small MiGe is a very good motor for the price. On this coming weekend I will fit my Lenze again to run back to back tests.

    Anyway, please, if you guys want me to replicate my Argon and IONI threads from iRacing here, let me know, then I can do something similar.

    But only if the community will see the need for it.

    Edit: Something to note about small vs large vs middle MiGe (M10015) - at this point both Argon and IONI can drive the small MiGe to full 20NM potential, and beyond, but the large MiGe can only get to ~22NM because of its lower NM/A rating and hence higher current requirements.

    Recently I have met with Tero from Granite Devices again, and discussed further enhancements for IONI for us sim racers with him and his team, and he also mentioned they are considering making 18A FW available to all sim racers with IONI drives. Also, there will be an external MOSFET Stage called Ionizer, that will allow driving virtually any servo you could want..

    For now, I would highly recommend the MiGe as a start, and later, you can migrate to Lenze, or, if you want to get around 30NM from current Argon or IONI, then you need to go to AKM53 or AKM54 motor......

    Edit2: Whilst lots of fuss was made in early marketing about motor rotor inertia, people were not considering the massive impact different wheel rims would have on this variable.....just something to think about. The minor differences between small and big MiGe, or Lenze, or AKM for that matter, is well and truly masked when you add a 290mm vs a 320 vs a 350mm wheel, for example.....

    There is no doubt that my Lenze is a much higher quality motor than my MiGes, but, I enjoy running all three, with hardly a noticeable difference between small and big MiGe, whilst Lenze is certainly a better motor with faster and harder response, one has to ask if the difference is that big to justify spending that huge sum....

    If you can afford it, go for it, but, if you can only afford the small MiGe, it is one hell of a good motor for this application.....

    Just my humble opinion guys.

    Ps: I will I form Ollie Aina about this thread too and he can post here if you guys are keen.

    Cheers,
    Beano
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  11. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    Yes Beano please do!!!???
     
  12. Beano

    Beano Registered

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    Hello Eddy,
    Ok, I have both working Argon and IONI threads, I think I could replicate both here, both contain all information for DIY crowd.....should I create them in hardware forum here?

    Beano
     
  13. Beano

    Beano Registered

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    Hey Paul,
    I will gladly share, no issues Mate ;)

    I think one could get around 19NM from Lenze if setting Argon to 19A peak of sine....it is a very lively motor though, this weekend I will add a few damping and inertia settings and report back. It should be very good then.

    With no filtering applied, much more chatty than the MiGe, unpleasantly so, but with filtering applied, should make for a better expereince by a margin...

    Cheers,
    Beano
     
  14. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    Yes i think hardware section would be the right place. For me i'm mostly interested in the ioni. But for sure there are people in here who would like to have information on the argon too.

    Thanks in advance [emoji41]
     
  15. Beano

    Beano Registered

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2015
  16. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Sweet. Thanks Paul. :)
     
  17. Katsushika Matsumoto

    Katsushika Matsumoto Registered

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    Hi guys, good to see a lot of familiar names from the iRacing forums ;)

    I recently installed my OSW (Argon) with the small MiGe.
    I'm still in the process of fine tuning stuff but I do feel some sims have some weird stuff going on.

    I like the forces as close as I can het to 1:1 even if this would mean I would have clipping in some areas.
    My first impression is that even at FFB 100%/20 NM in the different sims I clip quite a lot.
    Especially in iRacing with for example a V8 car it is especially bad, the bar is constantly red when even making slight turns.
    I'm disappointed about that to be honest, was hoping I would have some more headroom.

    I haven't tried but full race distances at 100% force are a possibility.

    If I try rFactor2 junior karts at Quebec (20NM in controller.ini and FFB multiplier 1.00X in sim, Mmos FFB 100%)
    I don't clip at all, the steering actually feels light for a kart.

    I do run a fairly large rim 330mm (Sparco R323) because that's all I have at the moment :eek:
    To summarise : I maybe upgrading to a more powerful motor in the future :p :cool:
     
  18. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    hi Kat

    re.clip in Iracing , can you feel the clipping ( dumb high force no dynamics etc ) , the in-sim meters are only a guide I surprised you can get it to clip ( must be very high force when it does ? ) , you want a more powerful motor ?? I'm surprised
    maybe your settings are a tad out ?
     
  19. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    1. I've seen videos of the iRacing Aussie V8s hitting almost 30 Nm. So if you're telling iRacing to output full 1:1 FFB strength and range (I'm not sure how that's done) but you're wheel can only do 20 Nm, then surely you'll get clipping since the iRacing Aussie V8 is capable of more than 20 Nm


    2. Regarding the rFactor 2 kart. If you have RF2 set to 1:1 FFB strength and range but the kart feels light than I'm guessing either one of the following is happening:

    A) The car kart is supposed to be that light

    B) The kart has a larger dynamic range than your steering's 20 Nm max, and therefore the relative lightness of the steering could be a result of your wheel not being able to provide the full range of forces. Sort of like what happens on the more mainstream wheels (but obviously to a lesser extent since you have 20 Nm available to you :)).

    C). ISI botched the forces/physics of the kart and therefore the kart's 1:1 FFB strength is too low.

    I very highly doubt it's point "C".


    Does all that sound about right, guys? I'm trying to learn as much as I can...
     

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