rFactor 2 Now on Steam

[Slamfunk3]

I see all of this (64bit, steam, performance issues on new tracks, etc...) as pluses and minuses of an ever evolving platform. On one hand it's nice that a sim I bought 4 years ago tries to stay up to date as much as they can. On the other hand a sim I bought 4 years ago and ran on high settings I no longer can sufficiently.
Personally I'll take that trade off anytime. The money I save in not buying more games or DLC's i commit to upgrading my PC. Again that's just me though, so I do understand why some are frustrated.
TK

 

[Marcel Offermans]

Oh dear.... so despite being 3PA Matsusaka isn't part of the game itself (either at all, or because I don't have a fresh rF2 install? Probably the former, though that could change in time I guess) so unsubscribing means completely deleting. Resubscribing means downloading the whole thing again. I've had no issues with steam but this is a little confusing, with now 97% of ISI/3PA content sitting there ready to install and now one that will instantly disappear if I unsubscribe.

*I'd be interested to hear from Marrs/ISI how this will work in future; does new content become part of the game automatically (cache) at some point? Does a fresh install right now include Matsusaka? If so can it be set up so new 'base' content becomes part of the cache? Is that a good idea or forcing a download people may not want? Am I simply asking too many questions?

When we converted rFactor 2 to Steam, we decided it was important for new users to start with a game that contained all ISI+3PA content, which is why all those pieces of content ended up in the "cache" folder with "dummy" workshop items that link to that cache folder. However, we can only update the cache folder when we do a new release. Sometimes content releases are done in between builds, such as Matusaka. In those cases we initially make the track a "normal" workshop item and as part of our next release we move it to the cache.

As far as subscribing and unsubscribing deleting and re-downloading content, that is something that Steam does for us. As a user you subscribe/unsubscribe, Steam takes care of downloading and removing the actual files, and rFactor 2 simply gets a folder from Steam when the content is available. So unfortunately we have very little control over caching items so you don't have to re-download them. However, if you feel strong about this, I would recommend looking at a way to use a proxy server locally and try to cache files that way. I am not sure if that would work, but it's worth a try (also if you have rFactor 2 installed on multiple computers).

I hope that answers your questions. We definitely had to make a trade-off here between catering for new users and providing a way to unsubscribe for existing users. It's not a perfect trade-off, but I hope you understand why we did it like this. As Steam evolves we will obviously keep looking at new ways of improving this situation.

 

[Juergen-BY]

It`s very easy, please let your customer decide, wich parts they want to install and wich not. Very simple...

 

[Nimugp]

what I wondered is another possible solution, that might, or might not work. I'm not a businessman, and have not so much experience with steam etc.

What about a base game without any content, or only the content really needed (pacecars or something, maybe 1 car/track if it is needed to work). And then have a free DLC with all, or partial content (with partial it could be a historic DLC, Openwheel DLC, etc.) That way people who don't want all, or any ISI content can have it without having a huge cache file, and people who do want all content can easy do so as well. Also, having free DLC might show up (nog 100% sure, but I believe so) under free games, maybe getting the attention/interest of more people that will then buy the game.

I'm not sure if it would be better then it is, if at all possible, but it was just a thought I've had for some time, and thought I might share it. For me it doesn't really matter anyway, since I have all ISI content installed anyway

 

[Lazza]

When we converted rFactor 2 to Steam, we decided it was important for new users to start with a game that contained all ISI+3PA content, which is why all those pieces of content ended up in the "cache" folder with "dummy" workshop items that link to that cache folder. However, we can only update the cache folder when we do a new release. Sometimes content releases are done in between builds, such as Matusaka. In those cases we initially make the track a "normal" workshop item and as part of our next release we move it to the cache.

As far as subscribing and unsubscribing deleting and re-downloading content, that is something that Steam does for us. As a user you subscribe/unsubscribe, Steam takes care of downloading and removing the actual files, and rFactor 2 simply gets a folder from Steam when the content is available. So unfortunately we have very little control over caching items so you don't have to re-download them. However, if you feel strong about this, I would recommend looking at a way to use a proxy server locally and try to cache files that way. I am not sure if that would work, but it's worth a try (also if you have rFactor 2 installed on multiple computers).

I hope that answers your questions. We definitely had to make a trade-off here between catering for new users and providing a way to unsubscribe for existing users. It's not a perfect trade-off, but I hope you understand why we did it like this. As Steam evolves we will obviously keep looking at new ways of improving this situation.

Almost

The new content being 'normal' content that gets installed and deleted automatically, no worries, that's steam. Having the cache with content because that was the best option, no worries (for me, unlike other posters above).

What I have now is 'normal content' Matsusaka. If I don't unsubscribe I'll still have it. In a future game update, assuming Matsusaka becomes part of the cache at that point, won't that mean I download it again as part of that cache? (would that happen with the game update itself? Or only if I do something specific like verify the game content? Boy, am I confused... )

If I can pre-empt your answer: if it does mean the download will happen again, because the one I have now isn't part of the cache (and steam probably won't recognise it is, and copy it into the cache automatically), that's not a very good situation. Again, totally separate to having the cache in the first place etc etc. I realise the steam system probably places some limitations on what is and isn't possible here. Preferably you'd like to check the downloaded content and copy/move that into the cache as appropriate, but it seems unlikely steam would have that facility or give the sort of control needed to do it.

 

[Hedlund_90]

Games are only going to get bigger and more power hungry.... it is the way PC games work! Game assets get bigger and bigger over time.

I bet everyone here would **** a brick when we all go 4K!

Upgrade your storage... no other way right now... you could stamp your feet some more though and see what happens.

Lol... Seriously? Don't you think I know games get bigger and more power hungry? It has always been that way. This is completely different. In this case we have rf2, in which we can decide exactly what we like to have installed or not. Only problem is that since we went Steam, those uninstalled files must still be left, occupying space. Totally unnecessary. So what I am asking for is a solution for that. Otherwise they can just ditch the mod manager and make all content mandatory.

If you don't mind having 20GB (or even more) uninstalled content on your drive just for the sake of it, then fine

 

[peterchen]

I hope that answers your questions. We definitely had to make a trade-off here between catering for new users and providing a way to unsubscribe for existing users. It's not a perfect trade-off, but I hope you understand why we did it like this. As Steam evolves we will obviously keep looking at new ways of improving this situation.

No, not for me. I still have no clue what the cache (and therefore dublicated content) should be good for.
Subscribe----> install
unsubscribe----> delete
That would be a logic for me.

 

[stonec]

The cache is there so that when a new user buys rF2 and downloads it, those cache files will be included in the main download. Then when user starts rF2, it's basically ready to launch. Without cache files, when user launches rF2 first time, he would have to wait for 12 GB of workshop content to download. AFAIK it's the only reason the cache exists.

 

[Juergen-BY]

Lol... Seriously? Don't you think I know games get bigger and more power hungry? It has always been that way. This is completely different. In this case we have rf2, in which we can decide exactly what we like to have installed or not. Only problem is that since we went Steam, those uninstalled files must still be left, occupying space. Totally unnecessary. So what I am asking for is a solution for that. Otherwise they can just ditch the mod manager and make all content mandatory.

If you don't mind having 20GB (or even more) uninstalled content on your drive just for the sake of it, then fine

+1

 

[Marcel Offermans]

If I can pre-empt your answer: if it does mean the download will happen again, because the one I have now isn't part of the cache (and steam probably won't recognise it is, and copy it into the cache automatically), that's not a very good situation. Again, totally separate to having the cache in the first place etc etc. I realise the steam system probably places some limitations on what is and isn't possible here. Preferably you'd like to check the downloaded content and copy/move that into the cache as appropriate, but it seems unlikely steam would have that facility or give the sort of control needed to do it.

I think you understand how the system works now, it does download the component in the cache folder as part of the next game update. That is not ideal. We can only prevent that by doing a game update whenever we have new content and put it in the cache from the start. You are also right about us having to work around a few limitations in Steam. Your suggestion we cannot implement for that reason, but something like that would have been great.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

The cache is there so that when a new user buys rF2 and downloads it, those cache files will be included in the main download. Then when user starts rF2, it's basically ready to launch. Without cache files, when user launches rF2 first time, he would have to wait for 12 GB of workshop content to download. AFAIK it's the only reason the cache exists.

That is correct.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

No, not for me. I still have no clue what the cache (and therefore dublicated content) should be good for.
Subscribe----> install
unsubscribe----> delete
That would be a logic for me.

I'll try to explain this part.

For "normal" workshop items, it works almost like you say:

If you subscribe to a workshop item, Steam will download the contents of that item into a folder on your local filesystem. When that is done, the rF2 launcher gets a pointer to that folder and installs all components it finds into the game.
If you unsubscribe from a workshop item, Steam will delete the folder and its contents from your local filesystem. The rF2 launcher detects this and since it has remembered what components were in that folder, it uninstalls those.

Now for the ISI and 3PA content, we've created workshop items that are a bit different. They do not contain the actual components, but literally just references to files that are in the cache folder. What I wrote above is still true, except for the fact that the launcher is now smart enough to see that a workshop item contains just a reference and it fetches the actual component from the cache folder. Now if you unsubscribe, it will still delete the workshop item, and the reference, it just does not delete the file in the cache folder. There is a simple reason for that, even if we would do that, upon the next update or "validate" Steam would download the file again anyway. Once Steam installs a file as part of the download, it will assume that file is always needed, therefore even if you delete it, it will come back.

So yes, that is a trade-off we made to satisfy the requirement we had, which was that everything had to be downloaded as part of the initial installation of the game for new users.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

Totally unnecessary. So what I am asking for is a solution for that. Otherwise they can just ditch the mod manager and make all content mandatory.

Making all the content mandatory and pre-installed is a solution we also discussed, but in the end we decided not to take that route because it would mean you cannot even uninstall that content from the game if you want to. The end result in both cases would be an almost equal amount of space taken on your harddisk anyway.

 

[Euskotracks]

When we converted rFactor 2 to Steam, we decided it was important for new users to start with a game that contained all ISI+3PA content, which is why all those pieces of content ended up in the "cache" folder with "dummy" workshop items that link to that cache folder. However, we can only update the cache folder when we do a new release. Sometimes content releases are done in between builds, such as Matusaka. In those cases we initially make the track a "normal" workshop item and as part of our next release we move it to the cache.

As far as subscribing and unsubscribing deleting and re-downloading content, that is something that Steam does for us. As a user you subscribe/unsubscribe, Steam takes care of downloading and removing the actual files, and rFactor 2 simply gets a folder from Steam when the content is available. So unfortunately we have very little control over caching items so you don't have to re-download them. However, if you feel strong about this, I would recommend looking at a way to use a proxy server locally and try to cache files that way. I am not sure if that would work, but it's worth a try (also if you have rFactor 2 installed on multiple computers).

I hope that answers your questions. We definitely had to make a trade-off here between catering for new users and providing a way to unsubscribe for existing users. It's not a perfect trade-off, but I hope you understand why we did it like this. As Steam evolves we will obviously keep looking at new ways of improving this situation.

It is already clear the reason why you chose to include all original and 3PA content.

However, I simply do not believe that the possibility to avoid these for users that do not want to have all that content depends on Steam features needing to be improved.

A regular subscription to the original items could be done after the first install letting the user to normally unsubscribe from them.

However, a hard subscription is implemented treating experienced users as small kids that cannot properly manage the software.

Newbies will eventually become experimented users and will likely find these mandatory subscriptions a PITA. Hence the non satisfactory situation will become dominant.

There is nothing wrong to accept that a bad decision has been made. It is wise to be able to admit errors and rectify a situation. It is clear that ISI had good intentions with their decision but is generating an IMO absurd conflict to most of its customers.

Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk

 

[Woodee]

In future do you think the launcher could be phased out? It is likely to become the equivalent of shortcuts to programs in the install directory on your desktop. Now that we have (or can have) a link to play the single player game and go through server list for multiplayer, doesn't seem much point left for it. Steam will be doing the authentication bit.

 

[Slamfunk3]

Except that since the beginning there's been complaints and threads made about people downloading the game and not being able to play because they have no cars or tracks. It's just as easy to say that experienced users will be annoyed but they'll deal with it where as a new user won't be able to figure it out and won't be able to use the game.
TK

 

[Lazza]

Good point Lazza, why should we down load tracks we don't want and take up space on hard drive.

That actually wasn't my point at all. The "why do I get this stuff automatically" discussion has been done to death already; I had no intention of digging it up again here. I had some concerns and questions about new content specifically, and how it related to cache in subsequent updates. Marrs has now answered those questions, and in the context and constraints of steam it makes sense.

In this case we have rf2, in which we can decide exactly what we like to have installed or not. Only problem is that since we went Steam, those uninstalled files must still be left, occupying space.

Yes, rF2 on steam is different to rF2 standalone. This is a change, it's been pretty well documented, it's how it is now. So not a normal case of a game expanding, just a change in how it is. I don't think having all content constantly installed (visible in game) is a great solution either.

I thought the better solution, since all this new packaging system started, would be to run the game from the .rfcmp files directly; I believe they're just containers for the actual data files, so it's not that much of a stretch to imagine rF2 reading the required data from them instead of needing to pull the files out and end up with 2 copies of everything. The manifest files would still keep track of what's 'installed' (visible in game). But that's wishlist material - better to just deal with what we have.

 

[Josh.H]

I thought the better solution, since all this new packaging system started, would be to run the game from the .rfcmp files directly; I believe they're just containers for the actual data files, so it's not that much of a stretch to imagine rF2 reading the required data from them instead of needing to pull the files out and end up with 2 copies of everything. The manifest files would still keep track of what's 'installed' (visible in game).

This would be much better.

 

[peterchen]

The cache is there so that when a new user buys rF2 and downloads it, those cache files will be included in the main download. Then when user starts rF2, it's basically ready to launch. Without cache files, when user launches rF2 first time, he would have to wait for 12 GB of workshop content to download. AFAIK it's the only reason the cache exists.

Where is the difference then? Besides the fact that you have a choice....

Now for the ISI and 3PA content, we've created workshop items that are a bit different. They do not contain the actual components, but literally just references to files that are in the cache folder. What I wrote above is still true, except for the fact that the launcher is now smart enough to see that a workshop item contains just a reference and it fetches the actual component from the cache folder. Now if you unsubscribe, it will still delete the workshop item, and the reference, it just does not delete the file in the cache folder. There is a simple reason for that, even if we would do that, upon the next update or "validate" Steam would download the file again anyway. Once Steam installs a file as part of the download, it will assume that file is always needed, therefore even if you delete it, it will come back.

So yes, that is a trade-off we made to satisfy the requirement we had, which was that everything had to be downloaded as part of the initial installation of the game for new users.

When this is needed to reach that goal, then you did something wrong!
Still not logical for me, sorry.

 

[AceLain]

Hey guys !

Just recevied my key right now, downloading is in progress.

I am really happy, it worked flawless.

I still don't understand what is the fuss about the cache file and the download... in other game you have to download all thing and you can't really uninstall anything that come to the game.
ISI decided to give advanced people a choice and new people a painless experience.
So I need to say: Great work to accommodate everyone !

And good job for rFactor, the great sim.