Newbie tyre question... I resized a working tyre that I'd like to try on the vehicle I'm working on using Redapg's online tools. The rf2 client CTDs with the trace message: Code: hdvehicle.cp 5805: After subtracting tire rigid ring mass and inertia from a wheel, the wheel's values went to zero or below! Note that this may be due to some combination of upgrades! I've had a look at the original (to be replaced) TGMs, the pre-re-sized TGMs (that work on the donor vehicle) and the Redapg-resized TGMs. To be replaced: Code: TotalMass=5.002821221777381 TotalInertiaStandard=(0.26699021453843064,0.17556142632898677,0.17556142632898944) RingMass=3.901441344772 RingInertiaStandard=(0.22721452298993716,0.1374096339049976,0.13740963390499955) Donor (and resized): Code: TotalMass=11.430955388493725 TotalInertiaStandard=(1.0283446488999113,0.6426878175639361,0.6426878175639309) RingMass=7.88375500719343 RingInertiaStandard=(0.8437221095779924,0.49173153363121264,0.49173153363121475) Quite a difference... Is this recoverable, or have I picked a bad donor choice? TIA!
That can happen, when the Mass and/or Inertia Values of the Tires are bigger than the ones from the Wheels in the Flex Chassis.ini. Check it and adapt the Values in the Chassis.ini accordingly.
Hmm. I’ve not solved this. I’ve had partial success resizing one of the tyres on the S397/ISI list - it does at least let me out on track but ‘randomly’ crashes the rf2 client. Quite often with nothing useful showing in a level-3 trace… The tyre I’ve been really trying to adapt just doesn’t want to play - it either fails with the errors in the OP or crashes spectacularly. I’m intrigued by Dev mode though… I tried the Alt-T switch between old and new tyre models on a number of different tyres and in most cases noticed that the vehicle tended to drop the front wheels in old-mode but also appeared to generate some kind of front wheel torque that caused them to rotate even when the vehicle was stationary…! Odd….!?!
@MileSeven an option was introduced years ago for wheels to include tyre mass, or something like that. It's in the suspension section of the hdv I think. This means the game will subtract the mass of the tyres when determining suspension weights, and obviously a negative mass is a very bad thing so if you chuck in heavier tyres without adjusting the masses in the chassis file you can get that error. It's this sort of thing (among many others) that makes using and updating the physics spreadsheet a good idea. If you put the new tyre mass in there it will adjust the chassis component weights, and adjust the distributions as well. You can do it manually instead but it's probably worth understanding what the spreadsheet does to avoid breaking anything. I realise filling out the entire spreadsheet can be time consuming, but the deeper you dig the more using it properly will save you time in the long run. As for switching between the models in dev mode, there should be basically no change in height when you do it. You need to match your TBC radius to the TGM. If they aren't matched you can get poor results. Low speed on the old model (tbc) can do some strange things but that's not really an issue in itself.
@MileSeven There can be several Reasons for a Tire not working, but it also can be something else, like the Suspension Geometry in Relation with the used Tire, that causes a Crash in the DevMode. There also have been Tires that "exploded" at higher Speed, where i unfortunately can not remember the TGM Value, that had to be modified to avoid that. And also unfortunately, a lot of Problems, Tire related and also other Problems, are not written into the Trace File. What exactly are you working at? Is it a Conversion or do you just edit an already existing rF2 Component? And what happens when it crashes? Do you e.g. "see the Sky", you can not exit the DevMode and a big negative Number is shown on the Screen or is the DevMode just crashing to the Desktop? As said, there are a lot of Problems that can appear, depending on what you do and use and it is almost impossible to judge, without to have the Mod on the own Machine. BTW If you switch between old and new Tire Model, the Diameter of the Tire should not significantly change. If that happens, there is something not set up properly in most Cases.... EDIT I just rembered the Value, that has to be changed, to avoid Tires exploding at higher Speeds. In the TGM File, it is the 4th Value in RingStiffnessMultiplier=(1, 1, 1, 0.9, 0.99, 0.99) Lower that to something between 0.9 and 0.5 and check if that solves the Problem.
Thanks @Lazza - mastering the spreadsheet would be nice - it’s a shame @redapg you haven’t got an import tool to populate it from existing vehicle files. The spreadsheet itself is not daunting - I used to make a living writing heavyweight VBA in Excel - it’s that good-old jump of populating meaningful data again that seems a tall wall to scale… I don’t suppose anyone has made a non-FISI2012 example available - e.g. for a saloon/GT? My current project is to understand and adapt a pre-existing vehicle we’ve been working on. I have my suspicions that the baseline tyres contribute to some ‘interesting’ behaviour on track - a tendency to skip-and-grab rather than slide, for example. To better understand this behaviour (and whether it is tyre-driven), I wanted to try using tyres from a reasonably-similar vehicle that we know behaves in a more benign way… I did try comparing/tweaking the chassis.ini entries - did I miss something in the HDV too? So - back to Dev Mode. Yes - with the resized tyres from the donor vehicle Dev does (generally) explode into the sky with a big negative number. I wish I’d screen-shot’d one crash because it gloriously captured all four wheels being ripped off - and it looked as if one brake disc was red hot - but I digress… The tyres I tried to resize from the ISI/S397 library were more successful - allowing a random amount of actual driving before a crash - not sure if they exploded though… One thing I’m slightly confused/suspicious about are the sizes reported by your online tools, Chris. The rim size of the original tyres does not seem to match the accepted real-world wheel size. Not sure if the original mod used dimensions of convenience rather than reality… I’ve tried re-sizing to both the real-world values and to match the original dimensions as reported but neither approach has been a success…
@MileSeven This whole Thing is very Multi-layerd. The Behaviour of a Car depends on so many Things, that it is sometimes hard to find out where Problems exist exactly. For Example the skip and grab vs the Sliding can be caused by wrong Inertia Values and/or bad set StaticBaseCoefficient= SlidingBaseCoefficient= Values in the TGM Files or a "wrong" Spring/Damper Setup..... And that the TGM Tire Sizes don't match the real Sizes or at least the Sizes in the TBC File, can be seen very often, but normally that doesn't really matters and doesn't cause DevMode Crashes. In your Case, you also have a big Difference between the Mass and Inertia of old and new TGM, that maybe can "destroy" the Suspension, when it can not stand the Forces of the new Tires. And there was also a Problem with Tires, that started wobbling at lower Speeds, that made them heat too much and they burst too (your glowing Brake Disc could be an Indicator for something like that). And there are more Things.... @Slow Motion and i have made a lot of rF1 to rF2 Conversions, by using my Tools already and sometimes we also have Problems with a Car. In such Cases, i put all needed Data from the rF1 Files into the Spreadsheet, to be able to generate the HDV and Chassis.ini from it. That sometimes helps to solve the Problems. But you are right. It's no Fun to get the Data into the Spreadsheet. I only have made a Tool, with that you can get the PM Data into the Spreadsheet. But to make one to get the HDV Data into the Spreadsheet, is too much for my Libre Office Skills. As you can see, there is no "do this and that and you get what you want". It's the "good" old try and Error Game, that has to be executed in such Cases.
I'm making some progress now @redapg With the modified ISI/S397 tyres, I've managed to stop them exploding at all speeds the car is capable of by dropping the RingStiffnessMultiplier as you suggested. I've had to drop it from 0.9 to around 0.67. Is this going to have any adverse impacts on behaviour elsewhere though? I've also tweaked the TBC radius and TGM sizemultiplier values so that the vehicle appears to sit on the tarmac sensibly (i.e. not partially sunk) and doesn't materially change when flicking between old and new models. One on-track observation is that the 'new' tyres (I used the 200/580-15x8 slicks as the basis) heat up the outside edges significantly on the same car settings and I've yet to identify if mere car setup changes will cure this or whether some inherent tyre design issue exists. I would really still like to bully my original donor tyres onto this vehicle and I think it *might* be a worthwhile exercise if only to work out what is currently so catastrophically wrong with them... ...and then it'll be on to the spreadsheets...
At the Time when we've got more Information from Michael Borda, he did say that you can go down to 0.5, without to get strange Effects. But that was "a While" ago and in the Meantime also the Tire Code has changed, if i understood it right. When it works with the 0.67, just use it. To the Differences between old and new Tire Model.... i don't know if rFactor 2 can handle different Radius Values for different Compounds in the TBC properly. So i would suggest to use the same Radius for all Compounds and when you upload the TBC with the same Radius Values into the 3rd Tire Resizement Tool, the uploaded TGM or the ones that you can select from the Tire Selection in the Tool, will be adapted to that Radius. If that is done properly, you should see no or almost no Difference, when you switch between old and new Tire Model, in the DevMode.
Thanks. Yes, I might have tripped over issues with different diameters - I’ve currently got three completely different tyres for evaluation in the TBC and one of them is behaving most strangely - lifting the front tyre from the ground despite everything having similar numbers. I’ll regroup with your suggestion to use your third tool.
If you get stuck with it and if you want, you can upload the Mod and send me the Link by a private Conversation, that i can take a Look at it.
Thanks Chris. Forgot to say - I managed to get the ‘preferred’ donors to avoid crashing the sim. The issue was inertia rather than mass. I had to bulk everything up and then shave it away until it broke again.
