Raceaccident - who is at fault

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Michael BEN, Nov 30, 2023.

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Who is at fault

  1. green car

    10 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. whitredgrey car

    8 vote(s)
    44.4%
  1. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    Hello,
    i am new to simracing and i have a disagreement with a fellow newbie in simracing. We raced on a server and an accident happend. You can see it in this video:


    can someone tell me, who is at fault pleas?

    thank you vera much

    best regards

    Michael
     
  2. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    That is a no fault (or equal blame) racing incident. Lead car was not in control, following car made an unfortunate choice in direction.
     
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  3. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    Thanks for your reply.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I think the following car would take most of the blame for the contact.
     
  5. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    So it is not important that the green car uses the whole track and turns into the lane of the following car? Does the following car has to anticipate where the green car is going?
     
  6. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    I think people seem to forget that the following car has all the information right in front of him, so has the chance to avoid the accident. On the road in real life if run into the back of another car, 9 times out of 10 it's your fault. On the track the same applies but too a lesser extent.
     
  7. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    Hmm, on the road it is not the goal to be the fastest. And the leading driver has no controll over his car. It turns in the last second to the left. How should the car behind know that. Only chance for whitered to avoid the accident, is to brake at the moment when the leading car is sliding to the right. But okay, i am a newbie. So i have to learn how to judge this situations.
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's really context dependent (rules, in real life costs and potential injuries), but mostly I'd agree with Emery.

    However, the following car has more opportunity to avoid the contact, in fact the leading car is busy regaining control. Doesn't mean you (I guess by your reaction to my post, you're not the green car) would get a penalty, again depending on context.

    And yes, I deliberately left my wording brief, was curious if I'd get a similar response to Emery.

    Overall the other driver will blame you because they had no idea it was going to happen and you had opportunity to avoid it. That's ok, it won't ruin your reputation. You would probably learn to be a little more cautious in similar situations over time, especially in cars prone to damage.
     
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  9. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    One rule you will learn, don't drive to where you think is safe, drive where the other car WAS.. If you had drifted right as soon as he began to slide, chances are you would have swung right on past him. As far as the collision itself...The lead car was not turning in, but had lost control, probably due to his tires getting dirty while offtrack.
     
  10. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    @Michael BEN I also would call it a Race Accident, where both Drivers had their Part.
    As a Race Stewart i would not penalize it.
     
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  11. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    My 2 cents:
    Lead car lost control, but was in a strong oversteer, so his trajectory was very predictable, thus, overtaking from the left, from so far away, was not the wisest idea. The second point is that despite the error, the front car was still ahead of half car , so it still had right of way and obviously tried to regain the right trajectory. I bet he didn't think you were there.
    The lesson to learn here is that it would have been better to try on the right, or better, to stay behind and use the gain to prepare a clean overtake in the next turn or two. After such a slide he probably has overheated tires, and being under pressure, the chances of him making another mistake, like going wide, are pretty good.
     
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  12. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    To be honest, i am stuned. The green car was all over the place and was driving wild, made serveral mistakes and stayed on the gas. So it is hard for me to accept, that i have to avoid an accident when i am not able to tell what he is doing or where he is going. But okay, i am a newbie and have to learn these things. And yes, i was driving the white car. Calling it a race accident is fine for me, but blaming me..... thats hard to understand for me.

    Thanks for your answers :)
     
  13. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I think the leading car made a mistake and tried to erase it immediately and I would blame them for that. They shouldn't have tried to defend the position when they had just lost control of the car. The car following could have anticipated that misjudgement though but the gap was so clear anyone would have tried to overtake in that situation IMO.
     
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  14. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Michael BEN I hope the takeaway for you here is anything less clear than outright maliciousness can be viewed in different ways. So it's not worth getting too invested in it.

    A second takeaway: the other guy is showcasing exactly what not to do when you start understeering: steer more. That's just taking the tyre further away from the point it can regain some grip. Little wonder it took so long to regain control, and it's a slow (as in laptime) process as well.
     
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  15. McFlex

    McFlex Registered

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    It's the first cars fault.

    1. He makes the driving mistake.
    2. Consequently he loses speed.
    3. Right after he retakes control over his vehicle he immediately retakes the racing line without ensuring that the racing line is clear.
    4. I would even say he intentionally risked the collision to block the following car on purpose which in my eyes is a no go.
     
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  16. Michael BEN

    Michael BEN Registered

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    That were my thought. Except number 4. But anyways. Its in the past and i have learnde something.
     
  17. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I actually had a similar thing to this happen to me in real life, where a car in front was oversteering/losing control. I didn't want to be anywhere near him so I just backed off and let him try to regain control (then past). Many times if you just back off a bit and let the person in front do their thing, you will get a better run out of the corner and pass them. Many times when I have been driving behind a car that is a bit slower than me, I purposley back off at a strategic place like coming up to a corner, so it then allows me to go at maximum attack through the corner and then pass them easily on the next straight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2023
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  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    And judging by the 2 corners in the video alone, that other car was only going to get slower :p
     
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  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    It is so obviously green cars fault. And was it defensive move performed too late, or was it loss of control ? Looks to me like first case. Following car was already two wheels off the tarmac giving as much safety space as possible, green car rushed in to block/squeeze the car inside even leaving its own fast line and overdid it, pit manouvered itself.
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    The understeer slide ended approx. half a second before contact. I'd hesitate to judge intent in that scenario.

    Without one of the available "radars" in use, the green car wouldn't know where the white is. Maybe just taking a guess and trying to block. Or, with handfuls of understeer, just trying to stay on track.

    The white car could have slowed. Do they have to? Hard one to answer. Does the green car need to lose its position because they spent most of the corner out of control? No.
     

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