Couldn't agree more. On the tyre model, DK seems to be driving for an "E=MC-squared" universal formula for the fundamental characteristics of a tyre - which is to be applauded. He's also quoted as saying that he believes the tyre model will be finished in a year. That may or may not happen . It's all badly negated tho by the FFB in Iracing which is disappointing. rFactor2 constantly suprises me with its fidelity and ability to keep someone like me at my age and, who appreciates the more subtle aspect of sim-racing, totally engaged. It has it all for me: dynamic by the bucketload and fidelity to match. Further and continuous development will improve things even more. Elsewhere, contrary to some thoughts, pCars' tyre model is highly advanced. They just need the FFB to match. The real competitor to rF2 right now in feel is Assetto Corsa. The FFB is "probably" the best around and I love their approach to realism with laser-scanning etc... All to play for this year.
rF2's tire model is one reason sim racers don't like rF2 because they can't slide the car unrealistically with their unreal entry speeds lap after lap in an almost robotic driving style. I'm sure some will call BS but I've seen this complaint posted on sim racing forums. Yes I also agree about the tire in iracing. They put all their eggs in one basket believing in a guy who it seems is too smart to work with anyone else.
Here's a vignette on what I love about rF2. Started a race on rolling start in rF2 with the URD mod and noticed by T2 at Silverstone that I had the incorrect fuel amount onboard - purely by what I was feeling about the car's behaviour at the wheel. I had 12 laps-worth in instead of 15. Can't say better than that.
One other thing that turns people off bout rF2- it is harder than other sims because of the features that bring it closer to being realistic. flat spotting, destroying the front tires easily, wet weather etc it's all difficult and unforgiving stuff. One bad corner and your race is done. Kind of like real life racing....
I do remember seeing one of the devs or Tim posting about that, how they feel rF2 will piss a lot of people off. Something along the lines of most previous sims being far too static and "easy" compared to real life racing, especially regarding tyres. Like you said, pushing into the corners was the big one, no way that you could put lap after lap in smashing and smearing the front tyres entering the corners like before. I remember statements from Tim saying that people may get even more pissed, as the drivers they were testing with were saying that it is still not punishing enough either, like getting one decent flatspot that will just ruin a set of tyres or a stint. It certainly makes it a very polarizing experience, I've seen some people that just can't handle it. I applaud them for trying to move in that direction though, especially when you are probably losing a fair few customers in the long run XD
Just browsing through this thread and if it has been mentioned before then forget this post, but would the possible answer to the tyre situation be to model and number of "brand made " tyres. That way , people could choose the "brand "of tyre that feels best to them, taking into account that they use them on tracks with equivalent grip rates or what ever its called. Each brand of tyre could use a base setup with things like grip and wear and heat ranges changed to suit different brands, That way ISI etc wont have to make changes to make everyone happy with the one tyre, they could just allow brand name tyres to be changed in the tuning section of car selection.
I see it so often, especially in public servers, that many people just have no clue how to take care of the tires. It's quite fun actually. I enter a server, and see some unreal lap times in practice and qualifying. I think to myself "I'll be so far off the pace in this race". Race starts, aliens disappear into the distance. Only for a while though... Half way through the race the aliens usually lose so much pace, that I'm able to catch up and pass. This amuses me every time it happens.
I share your observations re temp across the tyre but... Personally i have been able to have a big impact on balancing tyre wear. One car I was ruining fronts 1/2 way into a stint. Experimenting with: Diff lock (much less on power side) Rear ARB (more) Front ARB (less) Lower front slow bump shocks Higher rear slow bump shocks plus the usual suspects of camber. and switching off TCS was able to balance tyre wear. TCS will move tyre wear to the front due to the two fold effect of a) Protecting the rears and b) promoting plough understeer as the enegy will take the path of least resistance. If you are too hot mid corner u cant get oversteer with TCS on. IMO the tyre model, real road and FFB make this sim. A Race now requires total committment instead of a long period of hot lapping. You need to manage your tyres and thats the most real thing of all. Times drop as Temps come in, fuel loads fall, road rubbers in, then as wear come in grip levels fall. Its a totally dynamic environment and the best drivers manage it best. (i'm not one of them). But in endurance racing I got my lap time delta down from 7 sec/ lapto 1 sec/lap over a 1 hr stint with setup work.
@hexagramme Yep and most time the race duration is about 10 to 20 laps. A real challenge is to bring the tire over a real distance in a endurance race
I have both tried public races with highly accelerated tyre wear, and endurance races too. A couple of times I've won by a country mile because of tyre management. This was hugely gratifying, to say the least. People talking about not being able to balance the car, concerning tyre wear, I don't understand. In the setup I can usually balance things out just fine. If, in the race, I then experience uneven tyre wear I just change my driving style. This is what is so amazing about this sim, if you're a smart racer. If I find my rear tires are burning up, I just start to push the fronts more. In two or three laps I'll have evened out the wear and have way better balance. It feels like everything is in my control, and this in turn gives me a great deal of confidence. As others have said, you cannot get closer to the real thing than this.
Good example was me yesterday against the AI in the Ferruccio. First five laps of a 15-lapper I totally caned it and past cars at 100% with ease. But boy did I pay for that. By lap 8 I was a second a lap slower. By 12 nearly two. The cars I went by me as I struggled through Stowe and Copse. I need to be a lot smarter. Incidentally, my sim-racing style was observed by a current GT3 driver a few months ago in a sim. He said I would kill the tyres in three laps in real life!
Much greater impact, which was exactly my point. Do what you can to balance things out before the race, and then be ready to adapt quickly in the race once the wear starts getting uneven.
I agree with your comments. Although having said that, I find it unrealistic to have tyre temperatures and wear numbers staring at me the whole time via the HUD making it easy to understand what the current state of my car is and what, if anything, should be done to correct it. A real test would be to do away with the HUD and drive by feel. Sure in F1 they can detect surface tyre temps with their sensors but most other categories do not have that real-time telemetry. I think only then could we say that we can feel exactly what is happening, it would potentially eliminate any placebo effect too. See you on track.
I do not use it and never did, and partly it could be described as aid......seriously, it just irritates me, I'm only going by feeling.
I realise I am bumping my own old thread, but it's relevant and a continuation. On the iRacing forums a thread has popped up titled "will iracing lose against assetto and Pcars?".... no mention of rF2 apart from, from me, unfortunately...... anyway..... A comment within that thread "iRacing is also developing an entirely new tire model that is based on the physical properties of the rubber compounds used. This has never been done in a sim before." This is something I have seen time and again on the iRacing forums. Part of me thinks people that say it are the ones that fully believe that iRacing is doing groundbreaking work and will never be matched and part of me thinks they're literally blinded by iRacing marketing...... This post isn't to bash on rFactor 2, quite the opposite. I feel the rF2 tyre model is the best there is. But a simple question. Do ISI have a "DK" that is doing this kind of work? I know ISI don't like to shout about things..... but it's an interesting question that I would like to know the answer to. I don't really see how else it can be approached, but willing to be told. I'm just wondering, is all. EDIT: I want to stress I'm not out for bashing anything. Does anyone know the ISI approach? I'm not really bothered if someone doesn't like this sim or another. Just the technicalities that goes in to develop them.
rFactor 2 tire model is also based on physical properties of rubber... and so far working much better than iRacing's one for now. If iRacing's one is more complex or not, nobody knows, but more complex doesn't always equal to "better". If I'm not wrong the man (or at least one of them) behind the tire model is Terence Groening.
I personally don't know what iracing is doing but to me the sentence about using rubber physical properties is quite empty of info itself. A tyre is a very complicated composite system of rubber and metal. Its properties are very non linear due to the changing geometry that affects contact patch. Its friction properties are also greatly affected by temperature so it needs to be precisely calculated as well. In order to do this two things, a good tire model needs to be created. rF2 has a great tire model although some things need still to be improved. Rubber properties is just a another term in the whole equation and for sure they must already be included in any sim. Friction, wear, thermo-mechanical properties are there since the tire has varying grip, wears, heats up and deforms. So without a further explanation of that phrase, it is quite generic and void.
Thanks for the replies guys. Spaksis, there is a very detailed post, albeit a couple of years old now from the tyre guy at iRacing. All of those things are very much a part of their famed "new tyre model". The quote I posted was just a member.
