Ethone has some great ideas, although I'm afraid they may not get enough attention so someone who would be interested in helping bring about the vision may not hear about his ideas. I think it would be great to somehow organize his ideas and other ideas so they can be harnessed and some organization can be brought to bear on realizing some of these dreams. For example, the first step I believe is to draw the community's attention to Ethone's interview. That way people who may be able to help realize some of his vision will read his interview. For example, Ethone's talks about building and contributing to repositories for 3d objects so modders can be more productive. I believe there is already a source for textures but I am not sure how deep this resource is and I don't believe it is dedicated to sim racing and I think it is textures only and I myself discovered it by accident by reading a quarrel in the forum over borrowed textures and objects. So right there is an opportunity for some to contribute if they have or know someone with skills to build or design or promote such a solution. Obviously, it is also painfully obvious how fragmented modding information, how-tos, tips, tricks, etc. are and I know there has been debate over who should do this, etc. but regardless anyone who does this or contributes to centralization and organization of modding resources will be a hero. Ehtone also mentions the importance of not running people off from the community and that is something critically important. There are members if the community whose behavior will definitely run people off. It's a fact and it doesn't matter whether they SHOULD allow a-holes to run them off. I have been part of elitist communities in the past and they have survived but sim racing will not survive if you don't recruit and retain users and developers. Another thought that this interview provoked was regarding bringing new modders and sim racers into the community. I personally don't remember how I discovered RBR but that was the end of my life as I knew it. Prior to RBR, I played Grid, Dirt and GT5 and they were fun games but that was all. I have read many testimonials, if u will, regarding people who played arcade racers and were looking for more and found rfactor, etc. unfortunately, as in my case, this is all too often by luck. Another story I have heard is someone getting a copy of rfactor w/ their g27. That is good! If sim racing games are no longer in GameStop, as Ethone says, then how on earth are people going to discover sim racing? Even people who are looking for more may not even know what to ask for. What would be great is for someone with marketing savvy, connections, etc. to evaluate how to reach potential simracers, etc. and begin a campaign, even if grass roots. For example, I was at a Putnam Park track day and I mentioned having driven the course virtually to a few drivers and they thought it was very cool. Who could be more ripe for sim racing than these people? Yet they don't even know sim racing exists? Why doesn't someone strike deals with local tracks or go-kart facilities and tracks to promote sim racing their tracks virtually in preparation of track days or just as gimmicks to get people to show up or for special days or when the place is crowed and people are waiting for track time, etc, etc, etc. Another source is artists like Feels3 who also like the functional aspect of what they create. Functional art is cool! Possible crossover interest opportunity? Why not! Don't know what next steps are but and that's where leadership comes in. There are undoubtedly people in the community with leadership /organizational skills, connections, resources, etc, etc. Perhaps, Race Department, Driving Italia, bsimracing, etc. etc. etc. have resources, etc. and just need ideas and coordination. Anyway, I encourage everyone to read Ethone's interview and think about how the simracing community can better organize to ensure a robust future.
It would be good indeed to have a sort of rFactorCentral for modders too. On DrivingItalia we have an area called Modding Zone where we collected some reference for modders, but it really isn't enough. People should find links like this without having to surf on websites written in a language they don't understand. Ethone's interview really covers some interesting points, hopefully someone else will read it and decide to do something: we'll try to keep spreading the word!
Khorpp001, it would already be a very big help if somebody had the actual time, and would be willing, to fill up the rF2 Wiki pages with at least the basic fundamentals of track and car building. That would be a great start already. I know we have documentation already, but the more everybody is working with tracks and cars the more knowledge we gain, unless this is documented, it'll be quite hard to find. About an art repository, meh, most of this stuff for tracks is so unique, I'm afraid it mostly will be small props like fire extinguishers or pit stalls for example. Not really worth it using other peoples' work if you can do it yourself in one evening for example. I think the lack of easy accessible information is more important than some free models to use. People actually building cars and tracks need this info anyway and if they are building from scratch I don't think they want to use someone else's work in their tracks.
Yes that is a great way to say it an "rFactorCentral" for modders. And great link examples! Many thanks for your continued efforts!
@wgeuze, I'm no track modder so I can't say what kind of talents a modder must possess (possibly the most important piece of info for the aspiring modder as he may not even possess what is required) so I am not sure any modder has the artist ability to develop even small required graphics quickly. However, if artistic ability is required and you can't be a successful modder without such artistic ability then yes I agree with what you say b/c yes it would be easy to do your own minor graphics b/c you are an artist. However, if it is not required for people to be artists then I think it would be great to have a repository of stock art to pull from, especially for fantasy tracks b/c in that case to me at least a paddock is a paddock and a cone is a cone and a garbage can is a garbage can. Also, I wonder if it would be possible to recycle older versions of things or things not used by artists which would be cool b/c they would then be used by others and also since not used will be unique. @everyone, another thought I had which is like modder support is driver support. I wonder if some who have given up b/c "driving is too difficult" or "physics are inaccurate" because they spin out or have problems, etc. would have stayed if they could have made it "over the hump" as it were. As an analogy in the real world, I was a mess prior to my first track day. I didn't know what I needed. There was a list of things to bring but I didn't know what was required vs. what is recommended vs. what you should remember to bring if you have vs. you better buy this or that before you come or you will have problems or we won't let you drive, etc. etc. I had absolutely no concerns whatsoever about driving the course as I had driving it hundreds if not thousands of times virtually. Once I arrived, signed-in and was on the track I was fine. The environment was relaxed but professional and safe and I had a great time, was welcomed by all and quickly felt comfortable enough to begin asking questions, trading tactics, etc. with the management and other drivers. So the welcoming part is very important and folks from Race Department, Driving Italia, etc. and others are great with hospitality, but again, I found these places by accident and only after I had been around awhile, etc. etc. Back to driver support, I think it's great we have rookie, newbie, etc. leagues and we just need more of this. And perhaps all the sims need to promote other support websites and vice versa for the good of the entire community, etc. etc. Seems like coaching could also be good. Not sure if this happens, but with TeamSpeak, Motec, the ability of drivers to lead and follow and asynchronous ability to email, PM, etc. I can see no reason why some veterans couldn't take on a few students. There used to be (could still be in operation) a local business where I live that coached people on Halo. They had several units, etc. and made money coaching people. I know coaching is also done in other games today. Setups are another barrier. If people could help with how to make setups, how to test setups, etc. that would be good and also sharing a setup repository would be good too. I think some of the sim websites have setup threads, etc. but I have never even tried b/c (mainly because my personality) I wouldn't even know which one to pick or which fit my driving style or which were even good, etc. Maybe some meta data about setups would be good like this setup is a regular top ten online, etc. etc. Again some leagues help newbies out with this and some even have one guy that is good with qualy setups while another is better with helping out with race setups, etc. and this is great but many are not comfortable online and even some fairly good sim racers don't race online b/c of their schedules or because it is even too competitive for them, etc. etc. etc. Does anything exist out there to organize all these kinds of things? If so then maybe promotion/communications is the only missing element. Most likely each of these challenges is in a different "stage of maturity" and so some just need exposure while other areas needed development and others need centralized or ehanced tools, etc. It seems like it would be great if someone could develop something of a task force to promote these things and also the overall effort to save the genre. Am I wrong? Is anyone out there working on this kind of stuff? Sometimes the best place to start is with a list and getting feedback from community veterans on what is valueable, what is likely vs. not, who is interested in helping with certain elements, etc. I see potential for a lot of heros here. I continue to be amazed at how niche the sim market is and even though it may likely remain a niche it just feels like it could be orders of magnitude larger and better with additional exposure, participation & quality. Am I wrong?
Modding without artistic knowledge seems quite a difficult thing in the first place, since you're dealing with all the art which makes up the track. It might be helpful for bobs trackbuilder users and so on, but I wouldn't know how many people actually use that software.
A google search of rfactor bobs track builder yields 22K results. IIRC there are hundreds of mods, many good, in rf1 made with BTB. I'm not saying that rf2 is not different especially since there is no BTB for rf2 but I wonder if it is possible for someone who was able to learn BTB to learn 3dsimed, etc. and with an object repository be able to create some good tracks. I would hope so but may no longer be possible. There may be more but it seems like track creation requires artistic ability (especially for IRL tracks with textures, re-creating atmospher, etc.), craft/technical skill for translating information into track layout, camber, etc. and creative/engineering ability to design interesting layouts for fantasy tracks. Perhaps with rf2 there are many fewer individuals that can do even tracks alone and that would be sad but may be true. This makes teams, collabortation more important and thankfully there are collaboration tools in place, etc. but seems like many if not most prefer to work alone, which may be problem. What Feels3 did with KeiKei is excellent b/c they bring together different skills and ideas but I expect this type of thing to be very rare. Perhaps it would be great if people with layout ideas but without interest in the craft/artistic side could post ideas and people with craft interest would do that part and artistic people could do that part, etc. but I don't see that happening except for a very small number of teams like VLM, etc. which is not enough to drive (no pun) sim racing out of the predicament that it is in. Fortunately, there have been quality products like the Simbin and Reiza stuff based on ISI engine so I hope that continues with licensing of the new engine. Unfortunately, Niels seems to poo-poo the idea of a new engine b/c he is comfortable with the old one but he can't hand on forever. Hopefully, Simbin and others will be ready to continue/take over the mantle with polished products offering quality tracks, mods, series, championships, etc. based on the new engine. This could possibly be the best hope as one aspect of sim racing I have left out is the tedium and grind of tinkering with ISI products. AC and licesees of ISI engine may come to the rescue there and solve all these problems which will be critical especially if the community is incapable of more effectively organizing itself.
Guys, we applied some changes with the latest forum update. Let me know if you can still see the website or if some of you is experiencing the "Could not determine your IP" problem again.
We finally managed to publish a new interview: this week we had the chance to talk with Radiator Springs Racing. They're not rFactor related, but I'm reporting it just in case you might want to know that team. I'm still waiting to receive the last interview, which will definitely be more rF related.
radiator what? they are almost unknown!! rfactor has the best team-modder communty, why you try to bias the truth with useless, and ridiculous modders for netkar!! you always post bad news for rfactor 2...and of course good for ac...and company... if you read most of the posts in drivingitalia they are against rfactor 2..and you ..instead of take care of it...you let ac taking advantage...of this shame!!! of course cause Kunos are your good friends!!
Please, be nice. Modding teams work for the enjoyment of people and bad mouthing them is really unfair. Also, please stop with insinuations against people. I can agree that advertising a modding team who is working on a different product is way off topic here, seen this forum is focused only on ISI software, but no need at all to insinuate personal interests when an user goes off topic.
Know Your Modder has come to an end and leaves you with an interview to one of the most important team on the modding scene: CTDP. Known to a big audience for their incredible works on many Formula 1 seasons, these guys tell us what's their current situation and how are their current works progressing. CTDP have also been so kind to give us 9 previously unreleased screenshots from their International Formula Masters 2009 mod. If you are behind a proxy and can't reach our website, you can read the interview at this link as well: http://bit.ly/17kstmw
