I've watched these videos on youtube where Niels from Reiza Studios shows his spreadsheet for car physics: While there are some tools for physics modding this spreadsheet has a much more intuitive approach. Niels figured out the calculations behind all the numbers in rFactor's physics files. So you are not supposed to enter some abstract values e.g. for inertia x/y/z but instead type in measurments, weight etc. Furthermore there is always a nice graphical representation of your data. No more blind guessing but instead you see the effect instantly. I did some physics modding myself and noticed you can get lost in these numbers quickly. Some of them were explained in these "the ...-file and it's role ..."-documents, but still there are questionmarks all over the place and many variables don't seem to have proper measurment units. In the end everything comes down to experience in playing with the numbers. You might think because there are so many mods available a good approach is using an existing mod as a basis. But then you have to choose a mod in the first place and after comparing the available mods you realize they don't have much in common. Maybe the engine files, but have a look into hdv- or tbc-files of let's say different GT3-class-vehicles. It's almost like looking at a spaceship on the one hand and a tank on the other... (exaggeration, but I hope you get the point ) So I was wondering if ISI intends to hand out spreadsheets or similar tools to us modders. For sure this could help increase mod quality as with rFactor2's advanced physics engine the whole modding process has become even more complicated. Or is there a different approach for modding at ISI. At least there must be some guidelines to ensure all vehicles have correct physics.
Interesting stuff. I'd say any serious car modder has a toolkit they've built up like this. Probably won't be as complete and nicely packaged, but if you start building cars you'll end up with something similar. I wonder if he intends on releasing it to the public? Very interesting to see the talk about the bug with unsprung inertia. No where have I seen this discussed, and would like to know more about it.
With patience and common sense (and a bit of Excel knowledge, too) it isn't difficult to achieve a spreadsheet like this. I must say it looks really good, very well organized and intuitive. Sometimes when you are managing a lot of data is not easy to have everything in order Anyway, at the end what really matters is your vehicle dynamics/physics knowledge, otherwise using that tool or not it's irrelevant. What would be really cool is to have some way to design/analyze the tires in rF2 properly like in that spreadsheet...
I'm looking forward to see how much he has improved suspension stuff since 2007 Our Wiki has links to information that cover few aspects needed in building spreadsheet of this nature: http://isiforums.net/f/forumdisplay.php/86-Wiki Also from my sig you can find out modding information links and places where to get spreadsheet tool I have made for calculating springs and dampers, 2007 version of Niels tool did use those same formulas as I made them, have improved little after that, but very little sadly, however better than trying to guess values, I'm sure. I'm sure that community working together could make easily as good tool, but often I find everyone has to figure out the wheel by himself. But as Niels says, tool is just a tool, it makes process faster, but tool is not perfect solution, not even with perfect data, also tool has no idea if data entered is in any sane range, so it is easy to end up with things that don't work. If ISI would give us formulas how to calculate rF parameters from real world objects and data, that would already be a heaven for modding, toughest part is not building the tool, but to find out all those formulas needed to calculate stuff properly, there are so many parameters that one has to really guess where that number comes from. Even formulas often end up just into range and you need still to finetune stuff by testing and analysing, part which makes it not being a tool that makes great cars. Tires are of course black art and remain of such, because it is so often with those tire engineers designing those tires. But there is also even now lot of information available, lot more than many has found, so I hope that Wiki links could grow and maybe some day we could even have pages and who know, maybe even community made tool for stuff, okay, time to wake up from day dreaming
I get what you both are saying. For sure modding a vehicle is a long process. Simply entering all the known data into a spreadsheet and saving the outcome is not enough. What makes this spreadsheet so interesting for me though is the way how things are simplified and presented. Try to set the undertray dimensions without graphical representation. It's possible and simple, even for me, but it's not intuitive at all and mistakes are possible. Another example is the lift/downforce. The formulas for these are available and easy to understand (even for me who hated physics as a school subject and quit it as soon as possible). Making a excel-sheet for this should be easy, too. Thanks to Kangaloosh carFactory we don't need it though. From my experience it's also essential to have other people and discuss progress in teamspeak etc. You don't need to be working on the same project but it's still good to have s.o. else with new and/or different ideas. I'm wondering how ISI creates their mods. Do they have their own tools for everything or do they even use third party tools like carFactory? I do understand it's part of their job to not give out all the knowledge. But some kind of additional support (tools / documention) will also help boost rfactor2's popularity.
Maybe I am wrong, but I am sure they can tweak the physics values in-game (something like this, for example, but with the car values). This screenshoot also suggest that they can analyze whatever they need with that dev tool.
Part 4 of the series is up: Of course you all have seen it long time ago (yesterday uploaded), but I just found it.
