New M2 - shockingly disappointing

[green serpent]

To me all that this thread proves is how subjective ones experience can be.
I personally do not like cars that handle as if they are on rails. I like cars that you have to finesse through the corners and be measured with your steering, brake and throttle inputs. For me anything less than that and I may aswell go play Mario Kart. I personally don't get much joy from high areo cars. I prefer to feel what the tyre is doing and rely on that to guide my inputs.

There is a point though where cars REALY have hardly any grip at all and they can be a bit of a pain. I don't put this car into that category. There is plenty of grip and bite from the tyres if you get to the apex and the right speeds.

Many times I have returned to a car which I originally did not enjoy and didn't make much sense, only to find that I actually really liked it. It was through experience or maybe being in a better headspace or having better gear. I remember the EVE F3 being too hard for me to drive at one point and now it feels easy and practically perfect.

My friend couldn't get along at all with the NSX-R, whereas for me it feels like an extension of my own body. I can't ever say that a car in rF2 is 99.9% realistic because I would have no idea, all I can go from is if the car "makes sense", i.e it remotely does the things you'd expect of a car in a given situation. rF2 gets that right most of the time wheras certain other sims are completely laughable. I just wish there was some objective way to asses a virtual car against it's real life counter part. And no, "such and such drove this car in real life" is not objective.

 

[Comante]

I liked the M2 when everyone complained with the rattling, and I like it now.
I just like it. The car is a very good school car without being so punishing as a skip barber.
As green serpent said, this car want to be driven with white gloves, while it can sustain some overdriving to correct some mistakes, it can't be pushed beyond limit endlessly, you will get troubles and slow laptime pretty soon.

 

[Lazza]

@green serpent in comparison to how it was before, the M2 on a default setup feels really numb. That's not about wanting a car with huge downforce and loads of grip - I love balancing a 'slow' car around corners too. First impressions do count, and the M2 changed in a way that's bad for first impressions.

I think audio is also involved, as the previous version had the (ultra annoying, to me) tyre squeal as soon as you started to heat up the fronts, while the new version will gain 20-30° in a hurry with not even a peep.

I'm sure it's possible to find its limits and adapt to it over time, but that's also true for cars that handle horribly (and almost certainly unrealistically), so shouldn't be seen as a sign it's good or avoiding 'being on rails'. Sure people probably tend to jump to suggesting a car is unrealistic as soon as they try it and don't like it, but the out of the box experience has changed quite a bit with the M2.

 

[Bernat]

To me all that this thread proves is how subjective ones experience can be.
I personally do not like cars that handle as if they are on rails. I like cars that you have to finesse through the corners and be measured with your steering, brake and throttle inputs. For me anything less than that and I may aswell go play Mario Kart. I personally don't get much joy from high areo cars. I prefer to feel what the tyre is doing and rely on that to guide my inputs.

There is a point though where cars REALY have hardly any grip at all and they can be a bit of a pain. I don't put this car into that category. There is plenty of grip and bite from the tyres if you get to the apex and the right speeds.

Not only the right speed, also the right weight balance and angle into the apex. That's what makes it interesting.

My friend couldn't get along at all with the NSX-R, whereas for me it feels like an extension of my own body. I can't ever say that a car in rF2 is 99.9% realistic because I would have no idea, all I can go from is if the car "makes sense", i.e it remotely does the things you'd expect of a car in a given situation. rF2 gets that right most of the time wheras certain other sims are completely laughable. I just wish there was some objective way to asses a virtual car against it's real life counter part. And no, "such and such drove this car in real life" is not objective.

Being objective is hard. I just wished we accepted we won't like every car. Sometimes you wish you liked certain car but you don't. Specially when you've driven much faster and gripier cars which allow a much wider range of driving styles.

Simracing is special in that it's as expensive driving a F1, LMP2 or GTE as driving a BMW M2. If real life was the same I guess there would be no place for the M2 except for the people who were looking for that kind of experience. I think this is what we're seeing here, many won't see a point in driving a M2 when they can be driving something a lot more powerful and faster for the same amount of money. Why bother with something which resembles a fast potato compared to the much more expensive (IRL) cars?

I liked the M2 when everyone complained with the rattling, and I like it now.
I just like it. The car is a very good school car without being so punishing as a skip barber.
As green serpent said, this car want to be driven with white gloves, while it can sustain some overdriving to correct some mistakes, it can't be pushed beyond limit endlessly, you will get troubles and slow laptime pretty soon.

Yes, I agree it's a good school car, easier than the Skip Barber. It takes only a few laps to understand the dynamics of the car and adjusting to them and a thousand laps to master them. But if you aren't too used to high downforce cars, it's really easy from the start.

 

[juanchioooo]

Driven the Car and it's horrible. Just watched an Esports driver in a Race and what do you reckon he thought? You guessed it...horrible.

pruébalo de nuevo y ponle control de tracción al 1 ten un poco de paciencia es muy divertido

 

[Supa]

pruébalo de nuevo y ponle control de tracción al 1 ten un poco de paciencia es muy divertido

Hey there had to translate but yes I'll try traction control. Also I saw mention of the road car Honda NSX-R. Great car originally from RF1 and ported over to RF2. Mod was made by Niels Huiesinkveld the guy who did work on AMS1 physics! Good example of a great car. Go to his youtube channel and try to find where he just drifts it round. Amazing and good example of great handling. There are alot of good road cars in RF2 like the 1974 Porsche RSR, Toyotas, cortinas etc.

 

[mantasisg]

To me all that this thread proves is how subjective ones experience can be.
I personally do not like cars that handle as if they are on rails. I like cars that you have to finesse through the corners and be measured with your steering, brake and throttle inputs. For me anything less than that and I may aswell go play Mario Kart. I personally don't get much joy from high areo cars. I prefer to feel what the tyre is doing and rely on that to guide my inputs.

There is a point though where cars REALY have hardly any grip at all and they can be a bit of a pain. I don't put this car into that category. There is plenty of grip and bite from the tyres if you get to the apex and the right speeds.

Many times I have returned to a car which I originally did not enjoy and didn't make much sense, only to find that I actually really liked it. It was through experience or maybe being in a better headspace or having better gear. I remember the EVE F3 being too hard for me to drive at one point and now it feels easy and practically perfect.

My friend couldn't get along at all with the NSX-R, whereas for me it feels like an extension of my own body. I can't ever say that a car in rF2 is 99.9% realistic because I would have no idea, all I can go from is if the car "makes sense", i.e it remotely does the things you'd expect of a car in a given situation. rF2 gets that right most of the time wheras certain other sims are completely laughable. I just wish there was some objective way to asses a virtual car against it's real life counter part. And no, "such and such drove this car in real life" is not objective.

Yes very subjective, unless you spend a lot of time driving, and do it in right time for such activities. I personally noticed myself often disliking almost any car if I am: very tired, in bad mood, bad attitude, distracted and in general in negative state. Next time when I am all fresh, happy - suddenly many cars become epic. So indeed 100% being in right headspace is a meaningful factor.

This being said, if some didn't like one car and didn't like it at all for real, then it is all ok. There are many cars. But it is also kool to have a discussion im so if somebody has an intention to prove something, express their opininion it is also good thing, it is passion. As long as it is done in good will.

P.S. there is somethign about NSX too, sometimes I just don't like it, and other times it is just best.

 

[green serpent]

if I am: very tired, in bad mood, bad attitude, distracted and in general in negative state. Next time when I am all fresh, happy - suddenly many cars become epic. So indeed 100% being in right headspace is a meaningful factor.

I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I used to think that they had changed something in the sim or maybe my PC was running badly becuase everything just felt bad. Really it was just me being impatient or in a bad mood or wanting to get a buzz right away. When you slow things down, be patient and you're in a good headspace, suddenly the immersion goes up and almost everything feels great. But yeah, not to say that there aren't some truly terrible mods, sometimes it IS the game.
I think when you have a strong expectation of how something is going to feel and then it feels totally different you can be too quick to dismiss it as it being wrong or broken. Sometimes it can be as simple as you've chosen a bad car/track combination. For me the more I treat it like a real track day, and just take it easy for the first few laps, the more I enjoy it. Then after that try to push a little harder but accept the car for what it is.
I think one of the worst things I used to do was try to keep up with the AI, and when I couldn't I'd get frustrated and think the game was broken. When I learned that the AI% is a bit arbitrary, I focused on driving to my own ability and then setting the AI relative to that.

 

[memoNo1]

For me, the recognition value is very high.

My setup was very aggressive, which made the car much more unsteady.

 

[SteveMmmm]

I agree OP. It is really not conducive to good racing that M2 car. Feels slippery and all over the place. FFB is off too. Such a shame.

The Radical SR3 on the other hand is excellent!

 

[Dan kemp]

I agree OP. It is really not conducive to good racing that M2 car. Feels slippery and all over the place. FFB is off too. Such a shame.

The Radical SR3 on the other hand is excellent!

My thoughts exactly. The radical feels amazing. The M2….imo I can’t feel weight transfer, or anything. So much so that I keep playing with the FFB settings, only to find the car feels awful. M2 is not a good advert for rf2

 

[Bernat]

The M2 is the most demanding car I've driven in the rookie class. Every race with this car had me sweating by the end of the race and that's always synonym to satisfaction. It's challenging but at the same time it's great to learn to drive and have fun at the same time. I feel you're getting spoiled by the easier cars.

The bad FFB feeling is the information about the weight transfer but I think it's not properly interpreted because you're used to cars with way less weight transfer and more aerodynamic downforce. There's no need to drive a car that you don't like but in this case, I think trying to get used to it could result in having more fun with a wider range of cars.

Have any of you compared this car to the Skip Barber or the Caterham? How do they compare?

 

[oikworld]

Since the conversation is generally about the physics of cars, I would like to ask you here, have you noticed that official s397 cars of the gt3, GTE class and some others cannot slip/spin their wheels?
Do these cars have an anti-spin that won't turn off?
Why on the DTM M4 or on the "gt3 world" cars from the workshop, you can press the gas and spin the wheels calmly, but on the gt3 GTE cars, even if you fully squeeze the gas and release the clutch, the car will not spin?

 

[stonec]

Since the conversation is generally about the physics of cars, I would like to ask you here, have you noticed that official s397 cars of the gt3, GTE class and some others cannot slip/spin their wheels?
Do these cars have an anti-spin that won't turn off?
Why on the DTM M4 or on the "gt3 world" cars from the workshop, you can press the gas and spin the wheels calmly, but on the gt3 GTE cars, even if you fully squeeze the gas and release the clutch, the car will not spin?

Did you check that traction control is disabled from both the aid section and car setup? Some cars with long first gears have a harder time getting spun, but haven't noticed the issue much in rF2.

The M2 is for sure a unique one, unlike anything I have driven in rF2. The FFB reminds me a bit of the front-wheel drive Honda Civic BTCC. The grip feels like driving on a semi-wet track with having less grip than expected in some situations but ability to drive with large slip angles. Well, at least I found it very entertaining.

The only thing I think is objectively wrong is the lack of any kind of tire screech sound unless I literally spin the car. Feels like ever since the new sound system got introduced the balance is a bit off with certain cars and no easy way to fix that like with the legacy sliders.

 

[davehenrie]

The only thing I think is objectively wrong is the lack of any kind of tire screech sound unless I literally spin the car. Feels like ever since the new sound system got introduced the balance is a bit off with certain cars and no easy way to fix that like with the legacy sliders.

I think it was over at RD, but there was a thread HOWLING about how noisey the tires had become with the new sound system.(I'm assuming he was driving a legacy car without the new sound system) He quit rF2 due to tires sfx...

 

[mantasisg]

I think everytime there comes up a car and is introduced as "rookie" car. Inevitably plenty of reactions comes up about how car is not as nice, or as easy as it "should be". Perhaps rookie cars are true pro cars ? And pro cars are actually rookie cars, only much faster and much more expensive ?

There are multiple ways to make cars easier. Some of which is to put on lower performance tires and drive slower.

Since the conversation is generally about the physics of cars, I would like to ask you here, have you noticed that official s397 cars of the gt3, GTE class and some others cannot slip/spin their wheels?
Do these cars have an anti-spin that won't turn off?
Why on the DTM M4 or on the "gt3 world" cars from the workshop, you can press the gas and spin the wheels calmly, but on the gt3 GTE cars, even if you fully squeeze the gas and release the clutch, the car will not spin?

I haven't been driving them lately. But years ago I was talking about how I perceive too much of longitudinal grip. But it was with older spec tires. Possibly it carried on. Possibly perhaps not that wrong if softest compound wide tires with lowest pressures and with quite heavy car is acting a bit dragster tire-like. This is why I think those tires should be ditched, and racing should only happen with medium and hard compounds.

 

[Bernat]

I think everytime there comes up a car and is introduced as "rookie" car. Inevitably plenty of reactions comes up about how car is not as nice, or as easy as it "should be". Perhaps rookie cars are true pro cars ? And pro cars are actually rookie cars, only much faster and much more expensive ?

There are multiple ways to make cars easier. Some of which is to put on lower performance tires and drive slower.



I haven't been driving them lately. But years ago I was talking about how I perceive too much of longitudinal grip. But it was with older spec tires. Possibly it carried on. Possibly perhaps not that wrong if softest compound tires with lowest pressures is acting a bit dragster tire-like. This is why I think those tires should be ditched, and racing should only happen with medium and hard compounds.

Pro cars are faster (thus more dangerous), better and a lot more expensive. Rookie cars are cheaper, slower (also safer) and not as good. In simracing both cost the same, and the danger factor is ignored. That's why some users don't see a point in driving the rookie cars.

 

[mantasisg]

Seeing a point is an important issue in todays society It is how it is.

 

[oikworld]

Did you check that traction control is disabled from both the aid section and car setup? Some cars with long first gears have a harder time getting spun, but haven't noticed the issue much in rF2.

Well, of course, all this is turned off! I'm not new to rFactor.

 

[Comante]

Pro cars are faster (thus more dangerous), better and a lot more expensive. Rookie cars are cheaper, slower (also safer) and not as good. In simracing both cost the same, and the danger factor is ignored. That's why some users don't see a point in driving the rookie cars.

I think the main difference is that high spec cars amplify skill difference between drivers, thus is more rewarding. I think this is the main attraction. Low spec cars end often in a snake where is much difficult to overtake or to get advantage of opponents mistakes, this is frustrating to some.