New M2 - shockingly disappointing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vava74, Sep 30, 2023.

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  1. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Both versions feel great. If you up the ffb multi on the official F3, both cars feel pretty similar imo.
    But let's assume for a moment that the community mod IS more fun... so what? Personally I like the ethos of seeking the most realistic interpretation of a car, regardless of fun factor. If you want fun handling, why not just play a different title all together? Much of my enjoyment is derived from mastering a car that has (hopefully) been made with realism as the number 1 factor. If it's also a joy to drive then that's an added bonus. Call me a sim racing purest but I'd rather drive a car that is as realistic as possible and less fun, then a car that is pretty realistic but has been tweaked to add fun factor.
     
  2. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    That is one of the reasons why I myself do not like to drive high downforce vehicles. They distort the actual feeling for the available grip in the worst possible way.
    At the very least, you should drive balanced, high downforce and then again vehicles that have purely mechanical grip, in order to keep your own skills at the steering wheel in balance.
    Driving pleasure also suffers with high downforce.
    The M2 is a real craftsman's car.
    It's been said many times now, respect this 1.5 ton tank for what it is, and you'll have a blast with it.
    The new tyres are indeed very sensitive and wear out quickly, hopefully something will be done soon.
    Otherwise with the
    1st: 992
    2nd Sierra Cosworth (t78)
    3rd M2 CS
    the best cars for rF2.
    (For me) .
     
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  3. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    I've had the M2 since the first day it came out and I'm currently having fun with it, I have to say that it doesn't behave like a competition car, it looks more like a street car but it's fun, I enjoy it and now... at my age I've been trying to enjoy it for a long time. of things more than an overanalysis of it, since you say your favorite cars @memoNo1
    1st POSRCHE CUP
    2ndBMW M4 CLAS1
    3rd PRO FORMULA
    4th GTE
    5th INDYCARS
    6th GT3
    7th Radical free
     
  4. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    On Discord I was told - not officially, but by @juninho tilambucano - that - in spite of this, seemingly, not being announced anywhere by S397 nor, as far as I know, this does not happening in any racing series using this car - this new version of the M2 uses Michelin Cup 2 tyres, ie. semi-slicks instead of the standard racing slicks.

    The use of semi-slicks would explain the different feel, but then, I assume that it should not allow for the same lap-times and/or turning speeds, thus invalidating any on-board comparisons.

    So I continue to feel that something if off, unless someone provides me with a clearer answer.

    In addition to the above, I spoke with someone who has actual experience in current era GT cars and -- note that this was before I was told that the car uses semi-slicks -- he told me that the car felt like its tyres were on its very last legs, as he usually feels when he is desperate to pit.
     
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  5. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    The suspensions are very bad, it looks more like a street car than a competition car, the suspensions are very soft, there were videos out there, they look cool, but the reality is that they are very soft, I have a partner who has a 530 m2 cv and it doesn't vote like those even remotely, that's a board, super hard cushioning, it's not a question of tires, it just looks like anything but a real m2 that I also rode on it I saw it in situ

    but that's fun to see how he votes
     
  6. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    It has 530 hp because they updated it and the minimum they could increase was from 450 to 530 hp, the owner did not want to increase more power, so accelerating with little care would mean skidding as soon as you accelerate.

    The suspension setting is very hard, nothing to do with reality, it is a street car but with competition blood
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Setup allows to soften them, I don't remember if I went to softest possible or just a lil bit. But for sure I liked softer setting more. I don't remember checking aero settings, suspension frequency depends on aerodynamics, tires and road of course.
     
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  8. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    The M2 only has very limited aerodynamics, in that aspect the car is poorly built in terms of suspensions, in fact instead of talking about the moron, they should stiffen it, that said, it seems like a fun car to me, but very unrealistic in that sense, This is just my opinion from my experience....
     
  9. justposted

    justposted Registered

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    I found this discussion, and particularly this point, helpful. Like vava I also struggled with this car. But once I bumped car FFB to 120% and accepted that it's a heavy car, I started to enjoy it more. It is still super easy to get turned around by another car though - the AI really bully me.
     
  10. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    @justposted even if AI set to 100% still will have problem
    dont set the level to 120 % until they fix the AI path problems
    at the moment AI races are a pain
    i hope for a solution cause developers know the problem
     
  11. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    It is supposed to be sorted on the Release Candidate. Current public version has the AI suffering from "pass and squeeze" behaviour.
     
  12. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    @vava74 ok i m going to check
    thanks
     
  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    People don't consider car weight enough. Especially these days almost ALL cars are stupid heavy waste of resources, and I don't even think about SUVs when I write this. SUVs really should be just UVs, because there is no "Sport" in those cars.

    I am working on 1967 undurance cars package physics. The absolute heaviest car is Corvette GT car. It is around 1500kg. It chews tires like crazy in comparison to others, and it also has this type of "trust me I am gripping" kind of traction. Far more less comfortable than 250kg less weighting Mustang. Despite all around independent suspension and bigger tires and better weight distribution these few hundred kilograms makes an enormous difference to all dynamics and tire wear. All that mass is basically a mechanical downforce, and it does grip and is fast, but it also is shearing the tires almost twice as much as few hundred kg lighter car.

    In comparison there is also a car like 911, more than 500kg lighter than Vette. It is entirelly different game, you pretty much try your best to destroy the tires to be fast with it. Just when one end gets too hot you switch driving style from oversteer to understeer or vice versa.

    And there is car made out of WOOD ! It doesn't even weight 500kg, with a driver. It is again different universe. Basically you fly on a cloud with good FFB. The car is named: Costin Nathan.

    On one hand you have to appreciate how fast and how high performing nowadays sports cars are while being stupid heavy. But on the other hand have to agree that there is much less "sport" in them than there should be in a sports car. And it is massive cheat that works only because high grip tires, mastered aerodynamics and electronics. But tires wear irrationally fast and works in very specific circumstances, it takes tons of expensive materials to build cars, it takes more fuel to run cars both of weight and due to drag induced by aerodynamics. Electronics takes away bunch of driving spirit, and "lies" to you.

    Hey. To me this BMW is very fun car and I believe it is very realistic, I like it so much, it is far far far more awesome to me than much higher performance high end race cars. But what I am saying, is that a Corvette from 1967 as a race car which was lacking in metrics that was valued the most back then (low drag, low weight, being small) would be somewhat average racing car today, with couple slight adjustments. Well maybe just with engine power slightly reduced. The step forward since late 60s sports cars is debatable, the only thing I'd really prefer in modern race car, would be to crash with it.
     
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  14. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Amin Bro.
    You speak from my soul.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
  15. The_Bad_Fasterd

    The_Bad_Fasterd Registered

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    I first tried the M2 at Nurburgring GP and hated it but I realised I was trying to drive it like a GT car.

    Just hopped on again on the Nords and started driving it like it was my own car and being careful about not crashing it.
    It felt absolutely wonderful.
    Its still fast but you need to keep in mind the low downforce/mechanical grip factor.
    When I started doing that it *clicked*.

    Feels like Im leaving a lot of time on the table that needs to be explored carefully just like irl.
     
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  16. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    What I find with this car which might help people who are struggling with it, is that it really needs to be trailed braked quite a lot. If you don't turn in under brakes there is too much understeer. HOWEVER, even slightly too much braking while turning will overwhelm the front tires with too much load and cause understeer.
    I find myself threshold breaking in a straight line, then, instead of taking more of a geometrical racing line, I tend to drive diagonally towards the apex while modulating the brakes, and then rotate it at the apex. It's almost like there are two braking zones. One is the straight line threshold braking, then the second one is a diagonal modulating braking zone. It's a fine line between two much brake and not enough.
    I also find myself in the shorter braking zones giving just a fraction of steering input, so the correct tyre is loaded up slightly more so when I transition to the second phase of braking the car is already kind of loaded up like a spring to go in the direction I want.
     
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  17. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I agree with the last two comments. It feels much like driving the Skip Barber or the Caterham in some way.
     
  18. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    Main issue is that it has semi-slicks and that is not announced anywhere.
    That changes completely the make up of the car and makes it confusing to assess and what to make of it.
    And, as far as I am aware, no (major) racing series with the M2 uses semi-slicks, so get the impression that this was a route taken by the studio which may have not been planned originally.
    I will try again, with this in mind AND not dropping the car specific FFB (maybe even raising it a bit).
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    But wouldn't slicks have even narrower operating window ? IDK these feels quite a lot like slicks to me, but I am probably not credible as a desk and monitor driver.
     
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  20. Supa

    Supa Registered

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    Driven the Car and it's horrible. Just watched an Esports driver in a Race and what do you reckon he thought? You guessed it...horrible.
     

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