Keeping Tires and Brakes Up to Temp

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BoogerMac, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. BoogerMac

    BoogerMac Registered

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    How do y'all keep your tires and brakes up to temp when running on tracks with long stretches of max throttle (Spa-Francorchamps, etc.)? Every time I get every thing on the car up to temp, I hit a long straight, which quickly cools stuff down.

    I'm just looking for some tips to help me out. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Daniel Surace

    Daniel Surace Registered

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    For tracks with long straights, usually you are able to close the brake ducts a bit more then shorter tracks. this way you get more top speed and less cooling since there is much more time for air to get in the ducts on long straights. this is a simple balancing act to get the temps for brakes in a window without causing failure and overheating/ under heating. but it is expected to see temps to drop on the straight, so long as when u are in the breaking zone you are in the correct operating window. which i think for ceramic disks is 700-1000 *c and steel is 300-600* c estimates. (correct me someone if i'm wrong)

    In regards to tyres, this is very specific to car/mod combination. You could try running a softer tyre compound, increasing downforce softening suspension. but remember the monitor display for tyre temps is surface temperatures so they swing in temps will be more drastic. best to look at avg temp in telemetry to see where you are at. I would suggest playing with tyre pressure to work with temps slightly, as its not huge difference but unfortunately i dont think RF2 works so well with tyre pressures.
     
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  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    @Daniel Surace Wouldn't softening suspension actually reduce work for tires ?

    Also why everyone say that rF2 pressures ain't working totally right ? I haven't noticed anything wrong so far. Except maybe that I didn't notice any benefit of high pressures in the rain, or in other words disadvantages with too low pressures, but that is probably only because there is no hydroplaning.
     
  4. Daniel Surace

    Daniel Surace Registered

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    Depends on suspension geometry, usually softer suspension, which achieved by either dampers/springs increases the cars grip as it absorbs bumps better etc meaning the tyre is in contact with the road more and if the tyres is in contact with the road more providing more grip the odds of it increasing temperature is the effect. taking away driving style from the equation as this is another variable in generating heat.

    EDIT: hmm edit, now that i think about it, this is somewhat incorrect, and thank you for making me think about it. seems my brain is working backwards and thinking of ultimate grip instead of heat. you are indeed correct, that a stiffer car should generate more heat as your car would slide more resulting in more heating. this is all relative to driving style and balance, but in general that is correct.

    in relation to tire pressures, from memory running lowest is the best result with no ill effect. You would have to ask a Michael borda to confirm when it comes to tyre pressures, because currently from my understanding tire pressure don't work the way intended. but i could be wrong, so i cannot offer typical advise on how tyres pressures work when it comes to heating if they may not work correctly in RF2.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I think driving style is almost out of equation for straight line driving, though obviously previously accumulated heat makes sense.

    My logic about springs/dampers/geometry vs tires is that if suspension deforms more then tires has to deform less, because tires does same job. And if tires has to deform less, then they heat up less eventually.

    Could be true about being in the contact more too though, as tire obviously will not be able to deform if it is not going to contact with the surface well. But I think harder suspension has greater expansion rate so they will make the tires to reach for contact harder and follow the road better. Also simply being in contact with the road actually cools tires down because heat being transferred to tarmac, they heat up as they deform and slip a lot.

    I think that it is a myth that lowest pressures are fastest, but I could be wrong. I mostly drive classics, and have experimented that with them, usually higher pressures were harder to drive, but were faster. Also it depends what are the optimum pressures, maybe default pressures are usually too high, making an impression that there is a thing about pressures being low in rF2 ?

    I could be wrong, but I think higher pressures makes for less core heat, and more surface heat.
     
  6. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    So much depends on tire construction that you can't make sweeping statements which are accurate.

    For modern radial tires in real life, lowest possible pressure does generate the most grip. The lower limit is whether the contact patch is working correctly or carcass flex leads to fatigue before the race is over. One example I'm familiar with was the BF Goodrich T/A R1 produced in the latter half of the '90s. It had some unusual features, such as an outer sidewall that kept the tire working even on camber-challenged production cars (McPherson strut). It also had a hinged tread carcass, which, if you went too low on pressure, would fail due to fatigue stress. The other point when you go super-low with tire pressure is whether the sloppy feel can be tolerated by the driver; it's real difficult to be precise when you have to anticipate the lag time of the sidewall flex.

    For older tires like the bias-ply tires up until the mid-60s tire wars, they were essentially balloons, so higher pressure was required to keep the sidewalls from falling over. The tires wars started by the entrance of Goodyear (early '60s) & Firestone (mid '60s) changed the carcass construction so that the sidewalls were stiffer and the treads became flatter. Goodyear gradually widened the tread with stiffer sidewalls (leading Jim Hall to use modular rims on the Chaparral II) and it was Firestone that figured out by casting the tread face concave, you could achieve a flat inflated tire that was even wider. Meanwhile, Michelin was applying this tech to radial tires (Alpine at LeMans) which ultimately led to F1 adopting radials in the late '70s. Note that radials were occasionally used in racing in the '50s by Pirelli (the Cinturato sports car tire) & Dunlop (Jaguar at LeMans) alongside their well-known bias-ply tires.
     
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  7. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I kinda raised this topic a year or two ago. I don't mind that running an under-inflated tire would produce faster lap times. But there should be some penalty when you approach the extreme low pressure or, for that matter, high pressure. After a few golden laps the low pressure tire should begin over-heating at a faster rate due to flexing of the sidewalls(I guess, not an engineer, just someone who has seen teams suffer blow-outs when running really low pressures.)
     
  8. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    V8 Supercars last year (or 2017, can't remember) they were running low pressure high camber at Phillip Island and the tyres on the Holdens got ripped to shreds.
     

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