Karts - Steering range and spinning easily?

I don't undestand why people keep complaining with isi, when if they are unsatisfied with their experience, the main culprit is their wheel. If people want to realistically feel a difference between the wrist breaking forces of a DW12, and the feather FFB of a twingo, then it's not the simulator that can't dislodge your bones, is your toy wheel. Buy a freaking bodnar and then you should be fine and happy.

 

Could you explain the difference between STD and STM please?
Thanks

 

@Comante


so your saying rf2 is for the rich and only to be used on high end gear....??

If that was the case rf2 will never be successful!

But as it looks like ISI will not accomodate us mid range wheel owners looks like caster is the only way forward, godknows what this will do to tyre temp wear and overal car attrition?! lol

 

Yes, increasing the car specific FFB Multiplier will boost all forces, possibly inducing clipping at the top end.

STS is the equivalent of adding compression in audio. When set to a positive value it brings the lower forces up to be closer to the higher forces - which is EXACTLY what you're wanting.

But increasing caster IS mathematically and theoretically correct, increasing caster in real life absolutely does increase the steering effort required.

 

Yes I could, but I don't think you'd get the answer you're looking for! It might be more useful to explain the difference between STS and STM...

From Controller.JSON:

"Steering torque minimum#":"Minimum torque to apply in either direction to overcome steering wheel's 'FFB deadzone' caused by friction",
"Steering torque sensitivity#":"Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high",

 

lol!!! techade

Okay information taken onboard.
thank you
So what setting would you suggest for STS.

Also what effect does a higher caster have on car attrition. found info:
Increasing caster angles will only add stability to a certain point where the wheels will start to oscillate (shimmy). This is easily demonstrated by pushing a (good) shopping trolley as a reasonably fast speed. There are a couple of reasons why this happens;
The self centering effect of the wheels is not a free quirk of nature, it relies on an imbalance of forces being placed on the wheels. More caster angle generates more imbalance and there comes a time where this imbalance is too great.
Also, the greater the caster angle the greater the horizontal offset between the pivot points on the car. This will then elongate the contact patch and the loadings too much on the front or rear of the tyre and lead to sensitivity in the tyre to minor imperfections in the track surface.

 

I'd suggest leaving STS at 1.0 and coming to terms with the fact that toy wheels simply cannot replicate the range of forces required so simulate a DW12 properly. Not the answer you wanted, I know.

 

Successful at what?
Dan, think of rF2 as a tool instead of a game. A precision tool calibrated to levels not seen in the consumer industry previously.
It's not perfect, there's still much to do.

Right now, an individual can build whatever they like within this tool, within reason.
Right now, a company can build whatever they like within this tool, within reason (and all the licencing that goes with it of course)
Right now, you have the ability to change whatever you like within the tool.

So instead of a target audience of a few hundred thousand gamers, you have instead a much broader reach... all of the real life racers that want an edge. It's not only going to be successful, it will revolutionise the industry!

The only barrier to all of this, is your knowledge and your money.

 

The problem is that simple. Folks seem to accept that they need to spend big money for hardware to accurately render high quality video onto lots of pixels, but some seem to recoil at the thought of spending big money on a wheel to properly render a car that has large wheel forces. For those who can't or won't spend the big money, ISI has provided options to to overcome, but they produce a compromise (lower video settings for cheaper PC hardware, and STS for cheaper wheels). In both cases some are desperate to have their cake and eat it too, and then resort to methods that have undesirable side effects when used by others.

High quality simulation requires both high quality software and high quality hardware. The top dog race cars require high end wheels for accurate simulation.

 

@Z06Trackman @matf1

Point taken gents.

 

My RF2 PC isn't up and running yet but I think I've mentioned it multiple times now and in multiple threads - can somebody please try the darn STS (steering torque sensitivity) option already?

I'm not saying it'll work for sure but I don't even see anyone mentioning it - only STM everytime.

Can someone just try it, please?


EDIT: Nevermind, I just read the last few posts. Yes, try that already! Geez!

 

If ISI hire Chronus, he'll fix all g27 related issues....ie, a unique g27/budget wheel profile, so owners of more powerful wheels won't suffer.

Thing about a DD wheel is cost, namely the wheel, better pedals and an appropriate sim rig to withstand the torque, so only building for high spec wheels severely decreases customer satisfaction.

Given the rocky road rf2s had, rf3 should be built with a budget wheel profile from the start imo.

 

Sorry but this post makes absolutely no sense given that rF2 does ship with profiles for 'budget wheels'.

The requests being made here (increase the low forces on the DW12 so that we can at least feel something at low speed/downforce and not clip at high speed/downforce) can already be accomplished with the settings available. OK, STS could be made car-specific, that might make some kind of sense - though it could also be argued, from a simulation perspective, that STS should be vehicle agnostic too as it should only really be used to counteract non-linear FFB wheels.

What's actually being asked for takes rF2 away from being a true simulation and more into game territory i.e. we want it to feel how we want, we don't care if we're no longer getting accurate steering column torque data through the FFB.

 

Similar to the one you can get when you click load in controller settings? Or different somehow?

 

STS and STM and everything available in the controller file can be made per car if you think about it.

I'll give you a 2-word hint - "save," "load"

 

A lot of folks want and expect all of the vehicles in rF2 to feel the same and you won't be able to convince them otherwise.

 

nope nope and no!

i just want, without ruining the RF2 car too much is to have a half decent experience in my cheapo 300£ wheel. Hence there should be a setting for us less fortunate poorer folk, to experience something resembling more to real life. Without upsetting the elitists and they're hardcore sim set ups!?

But im otherwise done here... dont want to upset the hardcore/elitists anymore than i have.

 

I think you need to be clearer on exactly what you mean when you say "resembling more to real life". What you're asking for is for far less dynamic range than real life, so it could be argued what you're looking for is further away from real life, not closer to it. Remember there's simply no way to replicate a dynamic range of +-20Nm on a wheel capable of only 2.5Nm, compromises have to be made. Either you lose dynamic range and have heavier forces all the time (might feel "more real" but really isn't, you're actually getting less useful data through the FFB) or you accept that the steering is going to be 10x lighter than real life (but at least get full fidelity FFB).

 

+1

And all the discussion of torque settings and ranges is redundant (Tim, again) because a simple adjustment of the caster resolves the issue perfectly (on DW-12). You get the proper weight at low speeds and high speeds with no unwarranted clipping. No compromise is necessary. ISI already designed the car and the FFB properly. What is mind-boggling is that our ISI rep can't comprehend that piece of incredibly good news. Instead, the discussion of problematic torque setting adjustments continues. I tried to make the same point as TechAde above, but obviously failed.

I also said the same thing that TechAde said about caster not having this dramatic effect on the real car...but I actually don't care if it works in the sim or not. I just want as close to realistic feeling as possible, which is possible on all cars except the F2. If ISI figures out a way or changes the programming in the future so we get it from some other way than a caster adjustment, great. I don't really care.

The karts are great. Some lower quality wheels probably have a bit of a tough time with such tight steering (explained perfectly above why it exists on real karts). So it would be nice if you could uncheck the car-based steering box and have it apply only to the relevant car, not all. If someone needs to use 200 or 220 or 240 degrees on the karts to make their wheel behave nicely, this doesn't constitute a sin again simulation for me.

 

Are you sure you (talking about casters) know what caster does? Sounds just like one of those conversations where realworld is a mere after thought.

http://www.racelinecentral.com/RacingSetupGuide.html#caster