Is a track map even possible?

N

Nortski

Registered
Is there a reason no one have developed a track map overlay for RF2? It's the most basic feature any serious sim should have!

I'm thinking of learning a bit of programming and would to tackle something like this, but is there something within the RF2 architecture that prevents such a mod from being developed?

Yes I'm aware there's track mods available on Simhub, but a native one would be nice.
 
davehenrie said:
Serious Sim/Sci-fi magic floating track map?
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While the driver may not have it available directly , he make use of it indirectly at every single race. There a multiple of engineers watching over every bit of the telemetry, weather forecast and yes that includes a live track maps which they use to plan strategies.

Fazers's box TrackMap Plugin is the biggest loss to rF2 when it moved to DX11. I wish S307 would develop comparable tool.
 
Nortski said:
Is there a reason no one have developed a track map overlay for RF2? It's the most basic feature any serious sim should have!

I'm thinking of learning a bit of programming and would to tackle something like this, but is there something within the RF2 architecture that prevents such a mod from being developed?

Yes I'm aware there's track mods available on Simhub, but a native one would be nice.
Click to expand...

There isn't currently an interface for plugins to access the screen to draw on it. You'd have to use DirectX injection.

Trackmap used the same for dx9, and was evidently causing graphics lockup issues - probably for that reason. S397 even gave that as a reason for not providing a drawing interface when moving to dx11, despite the different method (I had a simpler plugin developing for league use, which I abandoned when dx11 came in - which caused no issues in dx9).

I wouldn't bother with the effort at this point. Simhub will suffice until the HUD is completely overhauled.


On actual trackmaps (a drawing of the track while driving) I'm in the "that's not sim" camp. It's very need for speed.
 
The target of a simulator is to simulate the reallity.
Does the real car has a live map? Depending on the answer will be a simulator or not (related to this function)
Another thing is if the trackmap is useful or not.
Note: I don't think that @Lazza is sugesting that AC isn't a sim.
 
Since I dont have 5 pitcrews telling me the situation all the time, I find my simhub overlays quite useful.
Trackmap, fuel calculations, damage rapport, tire wear, temps, weather, road wetness, relative positions etc. all information needed to make the right decisions. Dont see that as "arcade", just another way to get information.
And yes Crewcheif can handle some of it but, since "he" dont understand me half the time its easier to look at the screen.
 
With all seriousness, I am not against track map existing, but I don't understand why such thing should have even slightest necessity. Let alone being most basic feature of a "serious" sim.

First of all, it takes two to four laps to have an idea of where all turns goes in most tracks. And after 6-10 laps most people usually will have figured out most of the racing line nuances, which will be affected by camber, elevations, road widths, kerbs, strategic stuff like if it is better to have slow entry and fast exist and so on...

Secondly, why would anyone look at track map during fast pace driving, why would someone spoil their concentration on the live action ?

The only thing which I think is truly useful is getting an info about which section you are in, or get names of a turns. It is very useful to know how to describe locations for more efficient communication, plus it is nice knowledge.

It is wrong getting dependent on extra sources like: where to turn next, where cars are around you at anytime and so on...takes away bunch of good sport, experience and actual skills development. Which leads to a question, who would even still find this enjoyable ? Only people who can't find themselves accountable for their own faults and problems.

Last but not least, who had an idea to call that thing a map ? It is a scheme of a layout. A map would be something like a map of roads in a world, and it is an actually good skill to be able to read a map well and quickly.

But then again, I am not against such feature in a "serious sim wow". I just say what it symbolize to me.
 
I use track map, when on a new track or driving a track I cant remember 100% like targa florio, else I use it mostly for traffic overview.
and even though I also have a relative leaderboard showing seconds to next infront, or behind, the trackmap is a visual guide to this.
Its easier to see how many is in front or behind etc.
 
Nortski said:
Then you can just turn it off. Are you suggesting that ACC etc are not 'sims'?
I find it invaluable for things like returning to the track safely.
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We don't even need to mention other games here: trackmap worked in dx9, and people I'm sure do similar with SimHub. That doesn't make rF2 any less sim, despite people using something I don't consider 'sim' (realistic) in it. So that's a silly question.

I'm sure it's useful in a number of situations, and many unrealistic features are (otherwise, people wouldn't develop/use them). If I were in a competitive situation I'd consider using them if I knew others were and they provided an advantage. If dx11 were plugin-drawing compatible I probably would have ended up implementing a track map as well.

I don't like it, because it's not realistic (yes, your engineer can tell you things; that's not the same), but the cat's out of the bag in terms of track maps and the avalanche of information available and displayed live by people, so I'm not even suggesting the game should never have the option - it's a waste of effort, because people will do it some other way.

The straight-line 'map' that comes standard in rFactor is very practical in timing track rejoining, in combination with a bit of caution. So I wouldn't agree it's necessary, but it's out there so it doesn't really matter. I merely shared my opinion of that feature (not any game that provides/allows it).
 
Nortski said:
Is there a reason no one have developed a track map overlay for RF2? It's the most basic feature any serious sim should have!

I'm thinking of learning a bit of programming and would to tackle something like this, but is there something within the RF2 architecture that prevents such a mod from being developed?

Yes I'm aware there's track mods available on Simhub, but a native one would be nice.
Click to expand...

S397 already confirmed they will NOT refresh the HUD. So there will not be new HUD elements or even updated once for a long time.
Your only way then is using simhub. I'm also having a track map in there. And I'm using it to know where people are on the track, not because I don't know the track. So I think the question wether it's realistic is absolut stupid to me, because I use it as a compensation for the lack of a crew chief who usually would have those information and could inform the driver
 
dylbie said:
rF2 Fanboys: tRaCkMaP iS nOt rEaLiStIc!!! :mad:

Harry's Lap Timer App: Am I a joke to you? o_O
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I absolutely resent being lumped in with fanboys for saying, 100% accurately, that a live trackmap is NOT realistic.

And yet again, there'll always be trackmaps. I imagine at some point, in the long distant future, when the whole HUD system is redone, they'll probably have a trackmap option available. In rF2, natively. As a sim. And you can all use it, and I may use it too. That doesn't make it realistic, and I'm sick of being called names for saying things that are true and aren't about putting down other games. FFS.
 
I apologise if I offended you @Lazza

For clarification, I am a self confessed rF2 fanboy. No other sim comes close.

But, and there is a big but...

I've been away from rF2, this forum, and sim racing in general for almost a year now, and I've come back to such a load of bullshit here. Simple requests for basic features are either being shot down in this forum for whatever reason, or outright ignored by the devs in favour of some fantasy EV eSports.

A simple thing like a track map I agree is not entirely realistic in most applications and personally I probably would switch it off, but it is possible. And when I'm sat in my pants in my living room with a toy wheel and don't have a full team of strategists on the radio to help me out, it could be a useful feature.

Anyway, my post was meant to be a joke, so I'm sorry if you feel it was aimed at you, it's more aimed at the whole community of all sims and their apparent lack of any ability to criticise anything.
 
dylbie said:
I apologise if I offended you @Lazza

For clarification, I am a self confessed rF2 fanboy. No other sim comes close.

But, and there is a big but...

I've been away from rF2, this forum, and sim racing in general for almost a year now, and I've come back to such a load of bullshit here. Simple requests for basic features are either being shot down in this forum for whatever reason, or outright ignored by the devs in favour of some fantasy EV eSports.

A simple thing like a track map I agree is not entirely realistic in most applications and personally I probably would switch it off, but it is possible. And when I'm sat in my pants in my living room with a toy wheel and don't have a full team of strategists on the radio to help me out, it could be a useful feature.

Anyway, my post was meant to be a joke, so I'm sorry if you feel it was aimed at you, it's more aimed at the whole community of all sims and their apparent lack of any ability to criticise anything.
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Above I fairly subtly pointed out that removing plugin drawing support, because of issues with a plugin that didn't use that support, doesn't make a lot of sense. I signed up for the dx11 pre-beta (when you had to request access to its special sub-forum) via a PM to 2 main devs where I clearly stated my intention to continue work on a timing/info plugin (ha! I thought at the time I'd also have to request information like current engine mixture! Imagine that!!!), and I got given access and then later found out they were abandoning the interface.

So I fully get the frustration, and I do get your joke. Too often in here people have come up with silly suggestions, or half-arsed 'proof' of some issue, and when you point out how it doesn't make sense or lacks information/research you get labelled as a fanboy, despite openly criticizing multiple aspects of the game and/or its development. So you probably just touched a sore spot there, but mostly on my side no doubt.

I don't think a trackmap plugin is feasible for the reasons I outlined above, and for various reasons I don't think it's a realistic solution (and there are better options for the main use-cases), but that's just personal preference.
 
Lazza said:
I absolutely resent being lumped in with fanboys for saying, 100% accurately, that a live trackmap is NOT realistic.

And yet again, there'll always be trackmaps. I imagine at some point, in the long distant future, when the whole HUD system is redone, they'll probably have a trackmap option available. In rF2, natively. As a sim. And you can all use it, and I may use it too. That doesn't make it realistic, and I'm sick of being called names for saying things that are true and aren't about putting down other games. FFS.
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe S397 will bring a new HUD system? I wish I could believe that but IMO that's not happening.
 
Lazza said:
We don't even need to mention other games here: trackmap worked in dx9, and people I'm sure do similar with SimHub. That doesn't make rF2 any less sim, despite people using something I don't consider 'sim' (realistic) in it. So that's a silly question.

I'm sure it's useful in a number of situations, and many unrealistic features are (otherwise, people wouldn't develop/use them). If I were in a competitive situation I'd consider using them if I knew others were and they provided an advantage. If dx11 were plugin-drawing compatible I probably would have ended up implementing a track map as well.

I don't like it, because it's not realistic (yes, your engineer can tell you things; that's not the same), but the cat's out of the bag in terms of track maps and the avalanche of information available and displayed live by people, so I'm not even suggesting the game should never have the option - it's a waste of effort, because people will do it some other way.

The straight-line 'map' that comes standard in rFactor is very practical in timing track rejoining, in combination with a bit of caution. So I wouldn't agree it's necessary, but it's out there so it doesn't really matter. I merely shared my opinion of that feature (not any game that provides/allows it).
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No disrespect, but saying a track map is not realistic is not really correct. Every garage has live Motec(or equivalent) timings with track map which the engineers use to convey information. In sim, we may have spotters/co-drivers etc that act as this for the driver. If we don't have that extra body around is where track map shined, as the driver could keep himself informed in much the same way as an engineer talking to us over the radio. Personally I used to have the map zoomed in to show approx 1-2 secs in front and behind, mainly for pit exit rejoins. I also used it for FFB clipping, another item that has requested a lot, but not made a return....
 
TheGame316 said:
No disrespect, but saying a track map is not realistic is not really correct. Every garage has live Motec(or equivalent) timings with track map which the engineers use to convey information. In sim, we may have spotters/co-drivers etc that act as this for the driver. If we don't have that extra body around is where track map shined, as the driver could keep himself informed in much the same way as an engineer talking to us over the radio. Personally I used to have the map zoomed in to show approx 1-2 secs in front and behind, mainly for pit exit rejoins. I also used it for FFB clipping, another item that has requested a lot, but not made a return....
Click to expand...

For timing pitstops (as in, finding a gap to drop into) I'd think a list of gaps (by position) would be more useful. I'd want to be able to configure a stop-time and have the relevant cars and gaps shown.

For on-track info (who's physically around me, are they lapped/leaders) a similar list would be ideal. Like a live pitboard, and the same info an engineer might convey.

Pit exit merging? There's no live advice for that unless you're on an oval, and a diagram showing exact positions is unrealistically accurate. A screen is a disadvantage compared to real life (cue discussions about head movement and visibility in different cars), VR not so. Wide screens, triples, look left/right/behind, all help.

Track rejoins - no real life equivalent I think. I doubt engineers are allowed to advise drivers in such a scenario because of the risk of massive accidents should there be a data/GPS glitch. Marshalls maybe for blind scenarios - but the straight track "map" works, except when the track is very long.
 
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