Insight on the licencing and car building process???

With all the licencing discussions going on, I'm curious how this actually works in reality.

What exactly is included in a licencing agreement (ie for a car)?

Obviously you get the right to replicate the car, use the logo etc...

But how about the technical data?

Do you get acess to their internal data to rebuild the car physics? Do you get access to some of their 3 models? Can you maybe call their engineers to help you out getting the physics right? Is there an official "hand-over" where the company says: it's good enough, you can release it? Do you maybe get even access to a test-car?

On the other side there are the financials, which you might not like to share but it is it a one-time fee or maybe even revenu share? Are you maybe getting paid to "promote" their cars???

Anything could be possible.

Just curious...

thx

 

It allways depends from manufacturer, sometimes you get nothing, sometimes you get everything from real car physics data to cad models. Sometimes you will get same info you will find on google to.

 

http://imagespaceinc.com/technology/car-models-physics/

I imagine the amount of data they're given varies a lot. I can't see them having all that much in depth data for the Brabham, for example.

 

It varies a lot, as far as i know.
I once read somewhere, that Ferrari makes you use wrong physics data, so that their cars appear quicker in the game. Just as they only give specially tuned cars to journalists for testing (read about that here: http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins ).
Because of that, i was getting very worried about AC when they announced their Ferrari license
I guess it all depends on the size and character of the company in question. Guys like caterham etc. will be much more willing to give good info for lower prices, as they need the publicity. Ferrari and BMW on the other hand will make you pay a lot, but won't tell you much about their cars

EDIT: i haven't read that article in the link for a long time...but now i did, and i notice how interesting and enlightening it is. So read that article everyone!!

 

Well, it's a simple process really. You contact them, they usually have a financial demand they make, and most of the time it's too much. When it isn't, you can either have a simple agreement (ours is one page), or you can have 20 page contracts.

I wasn't hired to do anything like content licensing (my main job is actually licensing our software outwards), but I know a lot of people in the racing industry, so I just started trying it. It's one of those things you get better at with experience.

A licensing agreement essentially gives us rights to do something with the content, and in return usually gives them money. The specific deal depends on who you are dealing with. I've been surprised by quite a few free licenses, people that don't see a value in licensing, so just say yes. Most of those are not as attractive to have in the product, so will come later.

You don't always get rights to the logo. It depends. For example we licensed the Mercedes-Benz 300SLR from 1954-1955, but we have to market it as Mercedes-Benz Sportscar. We can use the three point logo on the car. While another car we got from Mercedes we can use the official name, but CAN'T use the three point logo on the car itself. Most cars also don't come with liveries, and some tracks don't come with their trackside ads, either. Lime Rock, as an example, came with trackside ads, a part of the track license, and even though we have no BMW license, BMW are featured on those ads, through that.

Technical data also varies. It depends on the manufacturer or the team you are working with. Some don't provide anything, others provide everything (it depends how at risk they feel, I guess). For example, we prefer not to work basing everything off an individual car, as any data you get could be skewed if that car has ever been in a wreck or has been altered in some other way, we prefer to look at the blueprints, or CAD data. That's probably the major flaw with laser scanning, as you get one car, not an example of what every car of that type should be from the design. We went through most of this here:
http://imagespaceinc.com/technology/car-models-physics/

When we license a car from a manufacturer, we usually try to contact a team or two who are running that car, and see if they will work with us. We get data from the manufacturer of the car construction, and how it should work, then the team tells us how it does work. This varies, the Brabham BT20 being the opposite example, where you essentially have one example, and old drawn design documents that probably aren't accurate to what actually hit the track. You essentially do what you can in those situations.

We've never been paid to have any car in rF2, no. Some rare free licenses, others we have to pay. Manufacturers seldom see the benefit, it takes someone who is a user themselves (we have had licenses come from people who used rFactor privately, and happen to work for a team or manufacturer) for them to see the value in being in a product.

 

Very informative, thanks.

Never understood those teams/manufacturers (which is alot apparently) who dont understand the free advertisement that comes with a proper sim.

 

Yeah, well, this is of course why you see so many going the pay per-car, per-track option. With us, we have to gamble that anything we pay out will generate enough NEW sales to cover the licensing fee and the construction fee (which can be months of solid work to build a track, and those people need to be paid also). We gain nothing financially providing content to people who have already purchased.

That's why it's frustrating sometimes when we're asked "they have this license, that must mean you can get it too". sometimes the numbers just aren't there with what we're asking you to pay.

 

Ask more, make a car packages with fee. If its not $10 a car, I'm sure theres a market for that to fill the void.
I'm game.

 

Thanks for the info Tim, interesting read. I'm also with Golanv, i'm fairly confident that there are alot of other people with the same mindset.

Although on the other hand, there might be alot of people who could be scared off by an "iRacing" approach to cars or tracks.

In my opinion, it would be great to have licensed cars and tracks, but since Modding is going to ( at least im pretty confident it will ) deliver alot of quality content to this sim, my main focus would be to complete the features i want to be in the sim and get it release-ready as a priority.

Those are just my thoughts though.

 

I'm sure there is a market, but look at the reaction to recent paid mods, gives a little indication. I also answer double figures email per week from people who are angry that we charge a monthly fee (which for anyone reading this, we do not do). Our section of the market, feels like our section of the market. If people want to spend more, they have options to do so. Although I am not sure they'll really see benefits from it in the long run.

 

Yeah, but I am sure that fear would carry over. For example if we charged for a particular car, because it's license made it not a viable option otherwise, fear would carry over there about every future car. It adds an unknown, while currently everyone (except those who think we have some kind of monthly fee going on) knows how things work right now.

As a consumer, I wouldn't mind it at all, but fear drives.

 

One of the best threads this month. Thx cracheur and of course thx to Tim.

 

I think that as long as you were very clear about what constituted paid content and what didn't and maybe even took suggestions from the community on what to try to licence, it wouldn't be a huge issue. But what do I know?

 

Hi All @ ISI,

As others have said, a very informative and interesting read. This is why I have always liked ISI as a software company because not many others in my experience are willing to discuss things like licence agreements, etc. with their customers. I have always supported ISI for reasons just like this. Apart from the fact that they make wonderful games! I started with SCGT (wow, 1998 seems so long ago now) and then bought F1 2000, F1 2001, F1C, Rfactor and now the latest Rfactor 2. I also bought Gmotor licensed games such as GTR, GTR2, GT Legends and Race 07. I would love to see a BMW licence for the game as I drive a BMW in real life and love it! (BMW 528i SE), but I know this is unlikely to happen. I will probably have to hope the wonderful modding community comes up with some BMWs for us to drive though. One can but hope!

Andy_RF2

 

I would pay extra for single car or track, if I knew that those were a deal that only could happen outside original price plan, because of well, greedy companys

And I would have no problem with pledging somehow by contract that I pay in the end when the content is released, like they getting a "virtual pool" somehow, so we dont have to have money involved until they seal the deal and we have to pay for real.

Avoiding hassle transactions between isi and customers if something doesnt work out in the end with deals.

 

I guess classic cars that are not in production anymore would be easier to get a license for? If so I wouldnt mind an ISI quality E-type or something similar (too many options to even list)

Anyway I'll gladly pay extra for quality content from ISI if it comes to that. OTOH given time, the modding community will probably deliver the goods.

 

Sir Jack as we know him here in Aus i think would work with you guys if you asked, its not as thou the team is still racing and there are secrets. and the info from him would be priceless owner builder driver OMG what more do you want. ( PLEASE CONTACT HIM ASAP ISI) Mum has told me about him he is a complete gentleman and she knew him at the time he was racing from some friends that she went to high school with were related to him, and was often over at there house when he was in Australia.

 

I´m with Tim here.
I doubt that it would be a good thing to create pay-mods by ISI itself.
It would - like Tim already said - raise confusion.

What about kickstarter or other donation based possibillities?
People who wants it can donate and when enough $$$ come together ISI can make it??

That was my first idea when I heard about the unpossible Lotus- license.
If you want it, make it real!

Greets
Pete

 

I paid $84 already, I would not pay more for content as it comes. At the same time, if ISI never made another mod I wouldn't be bothered because there will be many many many mods before too long. Maybe not as many as with rF1, but there will be more than enough to go around.