Green Hell track questions.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alex72, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Hey guys, was wondering about two things about our Nords in rF2. Awesomely made and i love it but the "jump" on Flugplatz seems more smoothed out compared to real life? In Assetto i always got a bit of air there or at least felt the wheel going light but in rF2 i feel nothing Maybe i havent gone fast enough but ive driven with several cars and really gone for it. Is it just me or is it maybe smoothed out a little?

    Second question is the carusel. Seems much less bumpy than what i see in videos. In rF2 it feels like soft bumps and not in rythm. Just like a soft bump here and there compared to videos where its really sharp, hard rythmic bumps all the way through.

    Just wondering what your thoughts are on this. Cheers. :)
     
  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I haven't taken off there yet either. But I don't drive with saturated track setting, because I really dislike saturation bake. So I am not brave to go faster, as there is no chance to stay on track in the right turn :D

    We know that this place was rounded off IRL, but after the scan was made, right ? I also wonder if Flugplatz was just as it was in 60s, or was it rounded off since 60s ?

    I have driven cars like these there, and did not jump at all. But I do get quite a bit of air at Swedenkreuz with same cars, speed is higher there, maybe thats why.
    [​IMG]

    I am yet to try 60s F1 cars there, I am ashamed to admit that I haven't yet. As so much more good combinations.

    I am slowly beginning to think that there could be something in rF2 that may not result in enough aerodynamic lift or something like that, that would be related to the front end height increase above surface as it aproaches apex of steep a hill. Perhaps even something mechanical ? But I am sorry again for wondering if rF2 works right on something without having any solid idea. So please excuse me and don't take these thoughts into serious consideration.

    Perhaps everything is right, but individual car physics doesn't hit some particular value right, and perhaps thats common through many cars ? There are many values. Simulated front wing, rear wing, body, diffuser...more. A lot of aero stuff to have an effect on that. Amount of drag and resultant drag force placement height to induce additional pitch. Amount of downforce, or perhaps actually lift. The loss of downforce/?increase of lift? with "xWMaxHeight" parameter. Additional air resistance parameter for wing up/down/fore/back/left/right direcetions speed. Additional inertia "xWRot" that adds up from air getting packed. I am sure that manipulating these values would result in cars jumping at Flugplatz, the new highlands track bridge, get loose on the hill at Bathurst straight or get more extreme on hills at Le Grand Circuit. But the question is would it be completely realistic for the rest of situations... actually.. perhaps ????? :D

    Interesting observation about Caracciola Carousel. I have not paid attention on it, but I recall it not being mega bumpy, but I did drive quite soft cars there mostly. There should indeed be some rhythmic bumping from separate concrete blocks, but I don't remember. One thing that always fascinates me is how car seems to stick to the road there and go faster, so I always think about that there, I think that is one of the best tests for tire load sensitivity, and that it works well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    The track was scanned in 2018 and reflects safety changes made after some GT3 cars got airborne there.
     
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Oh really ? Then I guess I have wasted time on the post above... :/
     
  5. krusti

    krusti Registered

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    Flugplatz has been changed after a Nissan GTR GT3 flown away, killing sadly a spectator.
    Same reason of why Nissan stopped taking part at the Nords 24h.
     
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  6. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    Nerd alert: Flugplatz is not the jump, it is the right-hander after the jump. The jump is Quiddelbacher Höhe.
    ideallinie-hocheichen-quiddelbacher-hoehe-flugplatz.jpg

    1,000,000 Internet points to @mantasisg for giving Caracciola Carousel its full name :D
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Thank you, that's a lot for me :D

    I also knew that the jump place is not actually in the flugplatz section. But that name just fits it better in my mind :D
     
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  8. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    The jump was smoothed (and many others) in the 1970 redesign. The redesign was so massive that the Nurburgring was closed for 1970 German Grand Prix and Hockenheimring was used instead.
     
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  9. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Thats the one i was thinking of. The Assetto laser scanned version often made me lift in the front and even jump with some cars but i dont know when the scan is from. Maybe around 2015-16. Then we had that horrible accident with the Nissan GTR and they put up speed restriction for that very "jump" since it could lift the front of the cars and thats what i experienced a lot in AC so im guessing a while after that accident they smoothed it out - again (since the old days smoothing).

    Yes, i just watched some GT3 cars and different Porsches do the carusel and its really hard rythmic bumps. Hard as in small but really noticeable shaking the arms and body of the drivers. The Porsche 919 Hybrid even avoids it because it would be too bumpy, lol.

    Cheers for the answers guys.
     
  10. krusti

    krusti Registered

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    I'm not a expert but i think that crash was an extraordinary set of circumstances, maybe a driver fault, or a car fault, otherwise it would have happened several times if it's so easy to get airborne, though it happened to me as well in Project CARS 2, i think it was the Ferrari F40 or the F50.
    I prefer it smoothed as it is now, the Flugplatz turn is more challenging as you come here a lot faster!
     
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  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Perhaps just the same as challenging as before I'd say. Before that there was less chance to adjust speed correctly for right turn because of the jump or just massive unloading of tires.

    In real life it is not possible to know if you are going to ride the headwind on top of the hill or something like that. There are lots of real life examples of high aero cars unexpectedly catching lots of air underneath the car, and some of those didn't even need noticeable undulations of the track.

    Nordschleife hops were rounded off so much since its original build in 20s. There was more than ten places where car would get all four wheels in the air, and it was big challenge as cars may not always land on all four wheels at the same time perfectly, thus it took great driver to avoid loss of control during the landing at great speed. I wish there would be more jumps in modern racetracks. Unfortunately they doesn't seem to mix in.

    Jumps in my mind are same as tight quick turns, just vertical :D Jumps are basically curves that are possible to have in straight motion, or if you get jump in a turn you basically put a turn into a turn :D I don't know any track which would for airborne the car at the mid turn. I think it would be interesting if you could technically take a turn at higher speed, but you would have to slow down more, because to prevent getting airborne. There are so many possibilities to make tracks funky and engineer some unique challenges. In reality they would be too unsafe, but in simulation it would be fine, other than simracers would complain about that as about anything is being complained about :D
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    The long version of Sears Point has a crest followed by a left turn. The really faster cars usually brake just prior to that crest. Mid Ohio has a very small jump that even aero Indy cars could get the front wheels airborne.(Madness was the turn, just before two shallow rights and another crest into Thunder Valley)
     
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  13. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    I would think the reason it didnt happen more often is because the drivers was aware and made sure to lower the speed when going up there. At least thats what i always thought and maybe that that Nissan driver didnt respect that or lost concentration etc. But maybe it was a series of conditions that made it happen. Setup, a little too much speed and a wind gust hitting the car from the front all at the same time...
     
  14. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    They flattened Flugplatz out in 2015-ish after Jan Mardenborough's crash there that killed a spectator The front end got lift and after that it was Peter Dumbreck and Le Mans all over again.

    When Chris Harris raced there around that time he mentioned the speed limit they put in.
     
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  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I'm trying to wrap my head around having a speed limit on the race track, not just in pit lane...
     
  16. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    It was, I would guess, a temporary solution. Otherwise the track would have to have been completely closed until alterations were made.
     
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  17. Postipate

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  18. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Quiddelbacher Höhe for you. o_Oo_O

    You must be one of those people who call Raidillon Eau Rouge.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I wonder how many people had similar thoughts about pitlane limits (or, indeed, separate pitlanes at all) when they were going to be introduced :D
     
  20. Seven Smiles

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    Please keep up Ronnie :D
     

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