Graphics improvements suggestions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hamiltonfan2205, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    No. First post and latest are not saying the same thing but feel free to report my post if you find my reply offensive.

    Cheers.
     
  2. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I think a lot of people have difficulty in the fact that older content doesn't use properly what is in the newer core. You liked it with an older core, that does NOT mean the newer core is worse. Updates to older content are required, that's really it...
     
  3. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Do you have something to say about Graphics improvements suggestions or do you just keep on
    :confused:
     
  4. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Well... the old build was definitely... yellow-ish... with a hint of sepia.
    And an veeeery interesting, no scratch that - curious looking sky...
    And a lovely subtle pinkness to the tarmac.

    I totally understand why people wish we could go back to that... ;)

    I understand your confusion mate, like, totally...

    You keep quoting me, the same quote, over and over. Nonsensical use of quoting, I might add.
    Then you ask if I have something to say... Even though I've pretty much already said it.
    You must be very confused. I hope that gets better. :)

    I shared my piece. I didn't like the tone in the now "infamous" post.
    I, along with some others, found that post... well you know since you're so fond of quoting me... "Condescending and pretty insulting".
    Which it was... Because the people who it was directed at got insulted by it. So there's that.

    Viola... Good night. ;)
     
  5. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Honestly I didn't really think of that before, and it's a really good point. I do remember reading the posts saying that Silverstone will only work on build blah blah and above, etc. And of course the new scratch built stuff looks pretty great, but there's no way of going back in builds with it.

    So then the next question...should we take bets? XD
    My money is on "when will it be updated??" lol
     
  6. Saabjock

    Saabjock Registered

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    There is no need for me to report anything.
    I'm not above saying something sounds wrong when it does.
    I'll be the 'bigger' man and say sorry to you... and the rest of ISI's staff if I unintentionally insulted you.
    I simply forgot the word....farm out SOME of the graphics and something (re: workload).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  7. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    this post went into the wrong thread earlier ( £!?!)

    In some cases rf2's graphics are fantastic
    & totally acceptable by the latest up to date standards
    ( minus some of the effects in certain other dx11 titles which I just think are gimmicks anyhow etc)

    ( put the skip Barbers on like rock with HDR on -certain time of day settings)

    So the software is totally capable of looking spectacular
    (Providing the pc spec its running on is decent)

    It's the inconsistency between tracks ,
    Some things seem broken or not working right -in a lot cases rf2 doesn't seem "solid" as a package
    the awful mods out there -I can't decide if that's the fault of the software (hard to mod for or shaders keep changing etc?)

    Be best if together with a new UI if all isi tracks could have a bit of work on them to make them all apear a little more consistent & fixes etc +a weather visual overall. ( even if a few minor moving drips in cockpit cam!)
     
  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    That's the thing. Spend all resources updating old content? Bad. Spend all resources building new? Bad. Got to be a balance, and that means it takes a long time to revisit all content. :(
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Member

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    The sky is a bit overblown, but it looks like that in current build as well if you drive in closed-wheel car cockpit, HDR has still same old problems with that. Now let's analyze a bit closer:

    Better pre-beta 2011:

    - Trees have self-shadowing
    - Trees cast more detailed shadows (notable at s/f line), the whole tree texture is reflected in shadows instead of just a dark mass
    - Shadows are not as dark as in current build
    - Tunnel is dark as it is supposed to be (quoting real drivers)
    - Sidewalls and buildings cast visible specular reflection (still not visible on almost every ISI track)
    - Lighting seems interact more with scenery, gives a more natural tone to everything (hard to describe)

    Worse pre-beta 2011:

    - More overblown sky
    - More yellow tone (personally I like it, but fair enough, maybe it's a tad too much)

    Updates to older content will not bring back tree self-shadowing, sun glare, rain on windshield (as in those wip shots), less dark shadows. Those are all matter of game engine.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Actually, yes it would. Older content would need to implement the new versions of those technologies within the game again. So, as stated above. If we re-implement the raindrops, no car will show them until the component is updated - just as an example.
     
  11. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    nightmare, sooooooo much work all the time

    ISI need a "speed up strategy" master plan
     
  12. P.S.R.

    P.S.R. Registered

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    Dope
     
  13. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    I guess thats exactly the point why some ppl say that outsourcing might be an idea. To me it seems that its a never ending cycle of change to core -> updating content over and over which leaves rf2 in this state most of the time. Is it true isi is only 5 ppl?
     
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    when updating shaders/technologies then shouldn't the release be including updated (older) content
    this would help rfactor2's reputation & older stuff would look a lot better, I know it will take longer but would help rf2 look more solid
    ( more consistant less glitches overall better )

    +more emphasis on finalising the shader/tech of the core software (it has to be finalised at some point)
     
  15. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    With tracks, outsourcing is an idea, but ultimately not a good one. It hasn't worked out very well when attempted. You haven't seen any of those attempts come to fruition and be presented for download. The only person so far who we've managed to successfully work things out with now works for us (so it's not really outsourcing anymore). There's a couple of other guys, but track guys are pretty hard to find, and when they do come along, it's difficult to have them understand and work to the required levels Luc has these days.

    I can understand that perception. But it has been since February 8, 2014 that Silverstone was updated. In terms of tracks, that's actually not often for an update to be made by a modder, or for us. It's just finding the time, and prioritizing an update over something new. For cars, it's actually even longer than that, since there haven't been any major - required to work right - changes, as far as I'm aware, in quite a long time.

    And what would you do? Do we remove all track content prior to Feb 8, '14 from our downloads, until updated?

    The FULL TIME car team is two, the FULL TIME track team is two. This doesn't include retained contractors, etc, who might work full time to deliver projects. ISI as a whole is larger than five, so no, that's not true.
     
  16. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    You're saying to hold core updates until content updates are ready? I'm not sure I understand what you're actually suggesting. Please clarify.

    AFAIK they haven't been changed since February.
     
  17. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Well then. Here is a comparison using more or less latest rF2 track technology (Silverstone 1.14) on build 49 (January 2012) and build 880. Very interesting results. I would say that neither of these look optimal, they are both too extreme on either side. Could not include road in picture as updated realroad shader didn't work too well on beta build, but everything else is comparable.

    Build 49: View attachment 15193

    Build 880: View attachment 15194
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    There's no question in your post to answer, I cannot obviously respond based on your own personal taste with how these screenshots appear to you. I don't personally share the opinion you have about them.
     
  19. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    hiya Tim

    yes at this point
    (assuming it wasn't a great idea to do it before for reasons I can't imagine or would not understand)
    -could they not consider getting everything synchronised
    (shaders/technology of core etc with all ISI content )
    then not releasing any alteration to the core tech ( GRAPHICAL/VISUAL alts only ) ( if it's not yet finalised )
    unless it's also released with content update (to sync/match updated core )

    the small glitches & inconsistencies really goes against rf2 due to the ways things have been done in the past
    (I'm not saying there's not good reason for why things have been done this way previously)

    sometimes I assume that it's maybe the case that ISI internal devs etc don't see things the way the users or potential users see things
    a lot of people make quick judgements based on visuals & inconsistencies / glitches etc also reflect on the title overall (& ISI )

    p.s the physics/ffb ( to me ) have always seemed rock solid, but we are only on the subject of visuals here ....please don't think I'm having a bash
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2014
  20. tjc

    tjc Member

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    :confused:
     

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