It was suggested to me by my supporters on Patreon to start a WIP thread here to keep people informed on the project and hopefully gain more interest. It's been almost a month since starting the campaign and the track is progressing fairly well. It's still very early but you can see the progress made so far in these screens. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get the road course realistic, I'm still not sure if I am totally set on it at this point but it's getting there. Patreon supporters got the first build to play around with yesterday, I am hoping to keep those fairly regular here on out. I still need your help to keep this going so please check it out. https://www.patreon.com/JMVirtualTracks
I've been really surprised at the apparent lack of interest so far. I posted about it on my facebook and I had a couple people I was certain would join in, but so far nothing. I'll keep doing what I can to spread the word and hopefully we can gain some traction for you eventually. Please know that the current supporters appreciate whats being done very much!
Well, you've surely got yourself another patreon supporter here. Making my pledge later today. Your work is stunning. Keep it up man!
I was late to the party with this, but, given how good Gingerman Raceway is, you definitely have my support too. Good luck!
James, have you considered giving Gingerman to the folks who support you and that may already not have it? Glad to see it's up to $40 a month.
Well I would think there would be some concern I guess for the ones who bought it, since a lot of my potential supporters may have bought Gingerman there wouldn't be really any perk for them so it would kind of cause a divide.
It's also ridiculous to ask you to give your hard work away given the history of the Gingerman development and when you are trying to make a go of this new venture. Anyone who supports the new venture should have no difficulty recognizing that Gingerman is worth the small amount you are asking for it.
Yep. The general apprehension about paying for third party stuff is something I think people are going to have get over in the near future. When the quality of the content is as high as in this case it's a no brainer I think. It deserves to be rewarded. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agree with John & Hex. At first it's a shot in the dark (when just released) as you don't know the quality of something. Now there are loads of videos of Gingerman (I think I've posted in the region of 10 myself) to prove quality. And what is €3.50? I think the price is ridiculous, frankly. I'd have happily paid double that and not regretted it one bit. I think quite a few people lack some perspective on just how hard and how much time it takes to produce something of such quality. The way I see it you have two options. 1) someone doing it for free in their spare time which makes the production time horrendously long (not complaining, just a fact) and increases the probability of the creator losing their motivation. 2) support the creator financially so as to allow them to spend more time producing their work and motivating them. This stuff isn't the work of 10 minutes. It takes a high level of skill in multiple areas. I respect anyone who scratch builds to this quality for rF2 immensely.
I agree 100 percent Rich. Building tracks (and cars for that matter) isn't how it used to be, 5 or 10 years ago. The landscape has changed and the insane amount of work that goes into creating scratch-built up-to-par content more than calls for compensation imho. James has proven himself, and I'll never have any doubts paying for his stuff. URD have proven themselves and I didn't hesitate paying their content either, nor will I hesitate in the future.
That's a good point about not giving away the previous track. Personally I jumped right on this project because I'd like to help and currently am able to, but I still keep thinking about how hypocritical I'm being. The sole reason I don't have iRacing and tell my friends it's stupid is that I think it's nuts to pay a monthly fee for a game AND have to buy all of the good content separately. I'm not so hardcore sim racer that I don't have just as much on Forza 4. I'm very used to 1)Buying the game once and being done, and 2)Getting 100 cars and 20+ tracks with the initial purchase. The only DLC I've ever purchased was when the Porsche pack came out for Forza 4 because vthat was a no-brainer. This whole deal with having to buy basically an engine and 5 cars that nobody wants then separately buy cars and tracks to use is quite foreign. Really it might just kill PC racing for me altogether. The only think keeping me is that in rF1 I was able to use the game to help set gearing for my real race car since both that and the track I was going to existed in fairly accurate forms, then when I was going to run the Indy GP I was able to run a couple hundred laps on rF2 to learn the track. It worked - my first timed lap ever on the course was the fastest lap the car had ever done there, but now there are no tracks in rF2 that I plan to go to that I don't already know and rF2 doesn't have my car so I can't work on setup. If it's just for fun to race with friends I end up on Forza where we can all run different cars to match our driving styles (and put faster drivers in slower cars) and jump around between different tracks without worrying about mismatched versions, or somebody doesn't have the track, somebody's firewall is stopping the connection, etc. This I think is an issue with ISI's approach however, thus the reason I support the community where I can. I do CAD design and built a track for rF1 so I have a vague idea of the amount of time and work it takes to do these highly detail rF2 tracks. I certainly appreciate that which is again why I didn't hesitate to support James in this endeavor at the top supporter level as well as spread the word to try to drum up more support. By the time it's done though I'm going to have paid something like $40 for one track. If that gets this ball rolling so that James end up with 100 supporters at lower amounts it'll be worth it. Sorry I got a little carried away with a little rant ;-)
I understand that Haudi and honestly this isn't aimed so much at those on a true budget. This is aimed more at the type of people who pushed Star Citizen to over 80 million or funded project cars, etc. I'm hoping to find the type of people that have the money to spare that want to help a good thing, get something out of it and make a difference. Honestly though it would take 100 supporters at $10 a piece to make this work so obviously I am looking more toward hundreds of supporters to make it work or a few people who are the type that have 20 grand in a simulator that feel like supporting me. It's really frustrating for me too, a lot of people I know from modding including many that started after me have full time work now yet I am still lingering going no where, I've had runs of contracted work that held well for a while but never anything with any real commitment despite everyone I've worked for telling me I do good work. If someone offered me a job right now I would have to take it because working for two months on $40 is just ridiculous honestly. So far nothing though, ISI doesn't have the budget to hire me, I inquired with SMS but got no response, I also contacted DMI games who are making the next PC Nascar game also no response. My only apparent path to staying in the game industry right now is this patreon and it isn't exactly gaining momentum quickly. My ultimate goal with this Patreon thing would be to first sustain myself which would take at least $1,000 a month, after 2,000 I could start contracting help here and there to get things done, beyond that I could look into bringing on others to work full time with my and turn in into an actual small development studio designed not just to make tracks for public consumption but also take on contracts as a team hopefully making crowd funding less a necessity. Chances of any of that happening is really slim and just thinking about the time it may take to even meet one of those goals already drives my nerves crazy. I get what you are saying and I am sorry to put you in a position where you feel like you are carrying the weight of this project, you early supporters have been great I just wish there was a lot more so no individual felt overly responsible or like they are letting me down if they have to pull funding. It really seems like so far that only myself and my few supporters are trying to get this thing noticed. I can't get anyone in the Simracing media sites to take notice, Virtual R would rather post stories about planes being put into Asetto Corsa than throw a bone to help someone who has been part of the sim racing community for over 10 years. If I had 1/20th the support Project Cars has gotten I'd already be expanding the scope of this whole thing.
Crap I didn't mean it like that and I totally see where it sounded like that. I'm totally cool with supporting and I don't feel like I'm carrying the weight or anything like that, though if the project were up over a couple hundred bucks a month I'd probably drop down a level. I'm extremely surprised at the lack of support here, but perhaps my feeling about how the game should come with content rather than relying on the community is a contributing factor with others. Everybody, myself included, is so spoiled with what looks like 'the old way' of full content game released and free mods and can't come to grips with that's just not how it's going to be anymore. I keep posting here for the most part to just keep the conversation going so this thread stays towards the top ;-). I'm not rich by any means; I only get to race for real because a)I split costs among a few people, b) my shop makes money off customers whom are racing at the same time which pays our way in, and c) I do it on the mega cheap ;-). However, I know some guys who are in to sim stuff and ARE that rich and have been trying to get them involved in this project. One guy I told about this is a pro driving coach that uses rfactor in his teachings and runs I think 3- 4 full sim rigs in his office. Daytona is very much on his radar of tracks he coaches. I expected he'd be in for something... and nothing but crickets. I'm getting ready to spend a couple grand on a datalogging system from this guy (for a customer) and absolutely will blackmail him in to supporting LOL (we're friends, it'll be humorous blackmail lol). Again here too, the more we keep this thread alive with conversation the more people will see it and hopefully add more exposure. More exposure can only be a good thing. I'll be sure to write some words about the track when I get to try it out hopefully tomorrow eve.
I am an avid Gingerman supporter and have encouraged others to get it. I would also buy many more tracks of a similar nature, quality and price. But James, a reality-check may be in order. I feel badly that you may be expending a lot of effort for little return--which is your choice, of course, but doesn't change the fact that it makes me feel bad. There is already a converted Daytona road course out in the wild. ISI is paying someone/group to update Jacksonville. Do we really need a third version of the same track? I am sorry, but not surprised that people are not supporting this. The supporters are supporting you, because you are a talented, nice guy! But the choice of this track mystifies me. If Jacksonville is released without the road course, lets all gang-up and beg and plead ISI to let James do the road course variants of the official release. They would pay a modest amount for that, I am sure, since everyone wants/will want that iconic road course. Then you would have two top-quality rF2 track credits to your name, which would open the door to do further contract work for ISI or to attempt another track that isn't already out there for free. Just a thought. I won't say more, but it pains me to watch a great potential lost due potentially to a simple business misstep.
i am under the impression isi isn't doing the road course. which struck me as odd, but thats what i recall reading. i do think this a quality daytona road course is (in that case) not a bad choice at all given its status as an endurance track & rf2's strength there.
Jacksonville's oval isn't accurate either, so there is that. If at the point this is finished ISI wants to make it an official add in to RF2 than I am open to discussion about that. Currently though if I can see this project all the way through your mind is going to be blown when you see the final result.
