[REL] EnduranceRacingX EGT by URD Update V2 July 2016!

Black Dice · Jul 9, 2014

Ales Ogrinc said: ↑

I got those, thx , didnt i reply you to first one?
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Nope. LOL

NO worries man. Got this one. Thanks

UnitedRacingDesign · Jul 9, 2014

Juergen-BY said: ↑

i want to paint on it, as we have done it on all other egt`s too...and working with all others, except the ferrouccio
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Windows itself are not paintable but the banner is, thats why i sayed use the BAN at end of the of your texture. Everything is same as on others on that except the rear wing.

Juergen-BY · Jul 9, 2014

Ales Ogrinc said: ↑

Windows itself are not paintable but the banner is, thats why i sayed use the BAN at end of the of your texture. Everything is same as on others on that except the rear wing.
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Is this different to the other EGT`S? Because on the other i painted on the window and it`s working.

Example: http://www.mediafire.com/view/gnkt929619i6klx/darche_ro_ingame.JPG#

used filename: 00_altwindow.dds, 00_altwing.dds, 00_alt.dds, 00_altban.dds, 00_77.veh

UnitedRacingDesign · Jul 9, 2014

Juergen-BY said: ↑

Is this different to the other EGT`S? Because on the other i painted on the window and it`s working.

Example: http://www.mediafire.com/view/gnkt929619i6klx/darche_ro_ingame.JPG#

used filename: 00_altwindow.dds, 00_altwing.dds, 00_alt.dds, 00_altban.dds, 00_77.veh
Click to expand...

Its switched off and will be done for others to. Its not really usefull.

Nazirull Safry Paijo · Jul 10, 2014

davidporeilly said: ↑

Ales, thankyou for the opportunity too give URD Mod Feedback.

I have written two pieces in the Race Department forums regarding this mod. I will post them here by way of feedback.
Please understand that I am trying to be very objective and don't set out to cause unneccessary upset.

Comments before Testing:
The subtleties of beating another driver on tyre/fuel strategy can only happen with a first class tyre model. Its where someone goes as fast as they can and nukes their tyres, or goes light on fuel for the best lap time but forgets the issues with crashes and lapping traffic. And someone else manages it all with a set-up that's not so tyre hungry, a fuel load that optimises tyre performance across a stint.

In testing last season (for Endurance racing 6-12 hour races in ISI Nissan GTR1) with set-up alone we reduced the lap time delta across a 100 litre fuel stint from 4 sec to .5 sec due to (less) tyre wear. We ran 100 litre fuel stints and beat faster teams who went the other way.

My point is that none of that beautiful engineering/strategy depth stuff happens if you can sprint all stint on your tyres. It becomes a long sprint.
I plan to get the free URD Corvette and run a long stint tyre comparison at Bahrain vs the ISI Corvette. I'll optimise the set-ups and run a tank of fuel at race pace and check tyre wear figures and lap time delta across the stint.
Maybe then Ill have some data and can stop guessing and surmising. Hope to have news soon.
in the meantime can anyone point me to a link to download the free Corvette? Thanks
edit: I found it and downloading now

Test Results and some conclusions:
OK I threatened to do some testing, mindful of the old saying that "a man with an opinion and no data to support it just is a man with an opinion."

Objective:
To verify if there is any significant variance in the performace/durability/sensitivity of the tyre models used in the URD (Chevrolet Corvette) Mod and the iSI Vette.
Methodology:
From time to time I do a little bit of base setup testing at Nazareth Speedway. I like it because it has 5 turns in a 27 sec lap and so I can test a 5 lap run on a setup change very quickly. You are pretty much turning all the time and you can immediately feel the cars response to setup changes. Its a very simple lap and personal performance doesnt vary much. Its a 1 mile skid pan in this sense. You can feel it and see for example a .5 sec improvement if its there without wondering too much "did I just drive better that lap?"
Its also brutal on the RHF tyre.
So I figured I can destroy 3 sets of tyres and get some consistent data without making a career out of it.
So I set up both cars for optimum lap time there. Loaded 50 litres of fuel and ran 40 laps as hard and fast as I could.
I used a Motec tool and wrote down lap times and tyre wear at 5 lap intervals.
If say that lap clearly had an error I used "data smoothing" and extrapolated from the laps surrounding it.
Results:
Best lap time: Nothing in it. The Endurance tyre is not noticeably slower.
URD Endurance 27.295
URD Sprint 27.464
ISI Vette 27.416.
Lap time delta across 40 laps.
URD Endurance 0.7 sec
URD Sprint 1.036 sec
ISI Vette 0.4 sec. (only ran to lap 28 as tyres were nuked, times would have dropped hugley by lap 40 if they lasted that long).

Tyre wear (RHS Front only) is markedly greater on the ISI Vette. At lap 30 its 29% left vs 62% and 63.5% for the URD tyres.
The URD End tyre keeps appr a 2% advantage in remaining wear over the URD Sprint tyre.
Tyre wear other: Its a brutal test so you ask would it hold true with less stress?The pattern stayed the same with the other 3 tyres.
Rears on URD car. 95% Sprint, 96% and 97% Endurance. after 40 laps.
Rears on ISI 82% and 91% (but only after 28 laps not 40.
Left front: URD 89%
ISI 89.52% (28 laps only).

Tyre Temps: behaved differently too. The URD tyres plateued more, whereas the ISI tyre temps kept rising. For example if we compare at lap 20 the the coolest temp achieved that lap for the hardest working part, the centre of the hardest working tyre the Front Right. The ISI tyre was 147 deg. The URD Endurance 126, Sprint 121. Peak temps were higher too.

Conclusions: The ISI car requires much more tyre management. With 70% wear at 30 laps vs 36.5% (URD End) Its tyres wear out approx 80-90% faster. In a less brutal environment there may have been a bigger difference between the two URD tyres who knows. The rear tyre data does not suggest it.

Even on such simple track the cars feel quite different in personality. I wont go into it (se below) # but when you are curious go and do 10 laps in each.
Thanks all for reading.

The data is available in XL format if you want to see it. see link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l30qm1djsvzbs6g/Tyre Testing Corvette.xls

Further Thoughts after a second test at Bahrain.
In the spirit of exploration I want to report that I've now driven the URD Corvette and the "Darche".
As Gijs says above club races are for fun and learning about the sim. I do however have to report that I have serious reservations about the URD mods suitability/standard for league races.

It is indeed a pretty looking mod with a nice cockpit and well done to URD for having the skill and courage to enter the payware area. I hope they do well and I have paid my 9.90 euro. But....
My concerns are:
Tyre wear. as I have written above following my testing I believe that the tyre wear is so low as to inhibit strategic choice. IE Full tank of fuel and drive flat out till it's empty is the only strategy. Tyre management is denuded significantly if not totally.
Physics: I don't want to be negative but the Darche (911) suffers hugely from too much rear grip. The only way to lose the car is understeer. If you can point the nose where you want to go the rear will follow. The rear end is glued to the road and feels only very slightly better than the Apex Modding 911 and IMO is worse thean the BES GTE mod. The BES 1.0 mod we used for Bathurst is far superior.
I did 20 laps and lap after lap I increased the softness/grip at the front and reduced rear grip till everything was maxed (for grip at front and minimised at rear) (Springs/ARB/Shocks) still I could only just provoke a rear end slide with drastic moves. And that was with NO ABS or TCS.

Feel: This bit is of course very subjective there is just very little going on in the lap with the car, it feels dead/lifeless. It is just flat on the throttle with no risk of over-steer from apex to braking point, get the fronts to hook up and flatten it again.
Sanity check: I was wondering if I was being too hard on it so loaded the the BES 1.0 car and did some laps immediately afterwards. I was smiling within two corners. It was a car. Made me work very accurately everywhere but had so much more feel that it made it fine. I was 1.0 sec faster but man I had to drive. I loved it.
Please try what I did and drive them back to back. Tell me where I'm wrong.For me the URD is easier than hotlapping in Time trial mode in Codies F1. Too easy, too predictable, too consistent.

Conclusion:

My concern is really that some big things RF2 does better than RF1 is a)Tyre Model, b)Real road and c)weather. If we take away tyres it seems regressive. I'm a passionate RD member and try to put a lot into Leagues/Club events so I'm worried that we might pick a dud.
Please don't construe this as rant I just wanted my say and I know its just my view. Enlighten me please.
Respectfully (yes I paid for it too).
David
Paste of my RD posts ends.

Final Conclusions:
As mentioned above my concern is really that some of the big things RF2 does better than RF1 are:
a)Tyre Model,
b)Real road and
c)weather.
If we take away tyre model it seems regressive.
If the tyre model is too durable/forgiving we lose that aspect of RF2.Tyres are so much part of the depth of RF2. Any compromise on tyre wear (ie not enough wear or too robust a tyre model) would in my view diminish the challenge in so far as endurance racing is concerned.
Further the majority of Real roads benefits are gone too. IE Too much grip all of the time negates real road. It becomes like hot-lapping in an almost constant grip environment reminiscent of say Codemasters F1 Time Trial. Fine for a while but I don't want 12 hours of it!

Physics and feel.
# from above
I will elaborate here having now done tests back to back Corvette vs ISI Corvette @ Nazareth and Darche vs BES 1.0 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR at Bahrain
There is just so much more going on under you with the other non URD mods. The car is moving around on its tyres and suspension. Grip is moving from front to rear as you load up each end with brakes or throttle and this is evident from FFB and on screen. Throttle steering has an immediate impact on the cars line, too much and you can oversteer on exit necessitating a little counter-steering . Braking wise if you are not in a straight line when braking hard in the 911 the rear will threaten to step out. The car is alive., laden with character, the centre of gravity evident. The limits of adhesion easily reachable and have to be managed. In the URD car there is just not much to do for much of the lap. I also rode on-board last night in the URD Viper. The driver was on full throttle on tight corner exits well before straightening up the car. Not do-able in real life.

Bottom Line
Way too much grip.
Not enough tyre wear.
Not enough feel.
Equals a false sense of security and less depth in Endurance Racing.

My view and only my view. I haven't set out to offend anyone. Its just my views.

At its current state of development the URD mod is a dumbing down of RF2 capabilities and below the standard if the ISI cars as well as some FOC mods by some way. Work on 1)tyre model and 2) physics is needed to bring it up to standard. Maybe the tyre model work will achieve some of part 2? I don't know that's outside of my knowledge base.

It can serve as a fun entry level car to get new drivers involved in multi-player in the Club Racing scene in sprint races but the danger is that it ('s physics)equates to doing a whole lot of mileage with all assists maxed out. This results in the need to relearn how to drive later.
In my view its better to learn in lower powered cars that react correctly (eg Skippy, Mazda Miata to name two) and drop assists A.S.A.P. If URD can address these issues and give us great physics and tyre model then the player has the chance to decide to use assists or not as their personal learning curve progresses.

However:Having said all of this its not carved in stone anywhere that anyone has to enjoy the full engineering depth of RF2. If painting a car and getting on track and having some fun is what you want then its an easy entry point.

I better stop writing now before I bore anyone.
Peace out.

The writer:
Has been racing consoles and sims since 97.
Been with RD since 2010 starting with Codemasters F1 on Xbox.
Got involved with RF1 and RF2 over the past 2 years.
Race at a mid pack level in RD League races and occasional podium in Club Races.
P3 in 2013 VWEC on RD. So capable but not alien.
In real life have raced high performance GT cars of front mid and rear engined type and up to 500hp on track in timed Club Sprint events as well as Endurance Karting. So over 500 laps real life experience.
Oh and Porsche and Ferrari salesman for 7 years
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Very good analysis. Thank you.
Was kind of thinking of racing the Endurance cars and the T5 cars in one race. Any ideas guys? Fuel limitation perhaps for the Endurance cars?

realkman666 · Jul 10, 2014

Although I understand the issue with the URD physics and tires, and perhaps a third tire option could add accuracy, similar ISI cars have a sensitivity that I can't relate to, either because I'm not good enough, my hardware is not good enough or I have to end up driving visually, which is no fun at all. I dislike iRacing for a reason, so I don't want rF2 to be similar. I'm glad the new cockpits look nice, but I would have liked a more progressive grip loss and earlier tire sound feedback instead.

Nazirull Safry Paijo said: ↑

Was kind of thinking of racing the Endurance cars and the T5 cars in one race. Any ideas guys? Fuel limitation perhaps for the Endurance cars?
Click to expand...

It would be a funny reversal of the Super GT situation. Why not?

Nazirull Safry Paijo · Jul 10, 2014

realkman666 said: ↑

Although I understand the issue with the URD physics and tires, and perhaps a third tire option could add accuracy, similar ISI cars have a sensitivity that I can't relate to, either because I'm not good enough, my hardware is not good enough or I have to end up driving visually, which is no fun at all. I dislike iRacing for a reason, so I don't want rF2 to be similar. I'm glad the new cockpits look nice, but I would have liked a more progressive grip loss and earlier tire sound feedback instead.

It would be a funny reversal of the Super GT situation. Why not?
Click to expand...

lets try dat!

batito · Jul 10, 2014

any news of the C7R?

MMartin · Jul 11, 2014

batito said: ↑

any news of the C7R?
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I saw it on FB but for AC

MMartin · Jul 11, 2014

Hi guys,
just to inform you that our server at IRACEONLINE is runnig in this HOT summer to the next event @ Hokenheim GP
Ful details HERE

Cu on trak!

Black Dice · Jul 11, 2014

MMartin said: ↑

I saw it on FB but for AC
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That is the C6R. Same free car for rF2

buddhatree · Jul 11, 2014

I purchased the Endurance mod yesterday and so far I'm enjoying it. First mod I've ever purchased.

For those who say they are too grippy, try the low downforce packages in Tuning.

Just talking aloud here, but if someone were to make a Tudor United Sports Car Championship mod with all the cars and tracks, I would pay $100 for that. Seriously.

Freddy3792 · Jul 11, 2014

buddhatree said: ↑

I purchased the Endurance mod yesterday and so far I'm enjoying it. First mod I've ever purchased.

For those who say they are too grippy, try the low downforce packages in Tuning.

Just talking aloud here, but if someone were to make a Tudor United Sports Car Championship mod with all the cars and tracks, I would pay $100 for that. Seriously.
Click to expand...

lol the low downforce is only on the visual side mate

buddhatree · Jul 11, 2014

Freddy3792 said: ↑

lol the low downforce is only on the visual side mate
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LOL!

Nazirull Safry Paijo · Jul 13, 2014

is chassis flex is modelled for this mod?

buddhatree · Jul 14, 2014

Just a quick comment:

There seems to be some artificial "center spring" in these cars that I don't feel with ISI cars. I don't know if that's the correct term for it, but I don't know how else to describe it.

This is the only vehicle mod I have installed and going from these cars to ISI you can really feel the difference. There's a "tightness" in the steering, a "springyness". Anyone else notice this?

Anyway, the models, sounds, & physics are good stuff, it's just the feel of the steering that keeps me from driving these more.

ZeosPantera · Jul 14, 2014

You may just be noticing an increased steering caster. That will pull the wheel to center even when stopped if the rest of the steering geometry is in line.

jakobdylan · Jul 16, 2014

is it possible to assign a own setup to an AI?
I tried in different way but it doesnt work.......

Andregee · Jul 16, 2014

Yes it is. You have to name it with the track name how the track is called in the settings folder and team name of the car

like LeMans91_Darche Racing
The team names are Darche Racing, AM Racing, Bayro Racing, Venom Racing, but be carefull with the Corvette, there are 2 team names, Corvette Racing and Labre Competition.

You have to save this files in userdata/player/settings but not in the track subfolders.

Here are carefully adjusted Nords and LeMans setups

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m79pulpuga7zx6e/AISETUPSNOrdsSLEMANS.7z

jakobdylan · Jul 16, 2014

Andregee said: ↑

Yes it is. You have to name it with the track name how the track is called in the settings folder and team name of the car

like LeMans91_Darche Racing
The team names are Darche Racing, AM Racing, Bayro Racing, Venom Racing, but be carefull with the Corvette, there are 2 team names, Corvette Racing and Labre Competition.

You have to save this files in userdata/player/settings but not in the track subfolders.

Here are carefully adjusted Nords and LeMans setups

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m79pulpuga7zx6e/AISETUPSNOrdsSLEMANS.7z
Click to expand...

thank you

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