Driving dem Brabhams

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BoothJoe, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. BoothJoe

    BoothJoe Registered

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    When ISI released the updates to Monaco and Spa, I decided I'd try running the classic cars. It was an instant hit. I was brought up with a clutch and manual transmission (well, three on the column, to be honest), so this is just a perfect fit for me. I like it so much, I abandoned by 2013 F1 series.

    But the Brabhams are so damned hard to drive. So I thought I'd seek some tips on running them. Since the first F1 race in 1966 was in Monaco, that's where I'm practicing...over and over and over. Lots of spinouts. Lots of crashes (some very dramatic, by the way).

    I found with the default setup, I never got it into fifth gear. I shortened the gears and now can get into fifth after The Bump. But slowing down from top speed is such a challenge, too.

    My guesses at this point are that the default gears are too far apart, that braking for Monaco has to be weighted much more to the rear tires, that you retain better control using the transmission than you do slowing down with the brakes.

    I also have this "thing" where the car will stall out after a spin and I have to hit the S key to start. Sometimes upon restarting, it will respond to the accelerator pedal; other times it will not and just shuts down again and I may have to hit the starter several times and pump the pedal to get any rpms.

    I think driving these cars at that time must have been a hell of an adventure.
     
  2. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    The thing with any historics is throttle control throttle control and you guessed it throttle control. :)

    " More is not always better when you overstep your boundary ......."

    Think eggs shells. ;)


    'dem is not appropriate for an Australian icon, American yes. p
     
  3. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    The historic are a whole different animal yes. To go fast you have to steer with not only the wheel, but also the throttle. Get some slip angle entering the corner, and then use the throttle to kind of "push" and rotate the car around the corner, if you know what I mean. You will often be turning left and have the steering wheel turned right, and vice versa. The brabhams USED to be my favorite cars to drive, but the latest version I just can't figure out lol.
     
  4. rer8

    rer8 Registered

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    Try this. Should work on 1966 Monza, Spa, and other 1960's friendly tracks. Adjust gears as necessary. Probably best to just print this out and go through the normal set up. Durge is correct... Throttle control is critical. Treat the car like a lady... be gentle. She will be nicer to you.

    C:\Users\yourName\Documents\rFactor2\UserData\player\Settings\TRACKName
    VehicleClassSetting="Brabham_BT20"
    UpgradeSetting=(0,0,0,0)
    //VEH=yourname.veh
    //UpgradeClass=
    //Note: settings commented out if using the default

    [GENERAL]
    Notes=""
    Symmetric=1
    //CGHeightSetting=0//9.04 in
    //CGRightSetting=0//50.0:50.0
    //CGRearSetting=0//40.5:59.5
    //WedgeSetting=0//0.00 turns
    //FrontTireCompoundSetting=0//Bias-Ply
    //RearTireCompoundSetting=0//Bias-Ply
    FuelSetting=28// 8.5gal (11laps)
    //NumPitstopsSetting=0//0
    //Pitstop1Setting=18//N/A
    //Pitstop2Setting=0//N/A
    //Pitstop3Setting=0//N/A

    [LEFTFENDER]
    //FenderFlareSetting=0//0.00 in

    [RIGHTFENDER]
    //FenderFlareSetting=0//0.00 in

    [FRONTWING]
    //FWSetting=0//1

    [REARWING]
    //RWSetting=0//0 deg

    [BODYAERO]
    //RadiatorSetting=0//100%
    //BrakeDuctSetting=0//1

    [SUSPENSION]
    //FrontWheelTrackSetting=0//54.50 in
    //RearWheelTrackSetting=0//54.75 in
    //FrontAntiSwaySetting=3//145 lbs/in
    RearAntiSwaySetting=0//Detached
    //FrontToeInSetting=10//-0.20 deg
    //FrontToeOffsetSetting=0//0.00 deg
    RearToeInSetting=7//0.20 deg
    //RearToeOffsetSetting=0//0.00 deg
    //LeftCasterSetting=8//5.0 deg
    //RightCasterSetting=8//5.0 deg
    //LeftTrackBarSetting=0//0.000 in
    //RightTrackBarSetting=0//0.000 in
    //Front3rdPackerSetting=0//0.000 in
    //Front3rdSpringSetting=0//Detached
    //Front3rdSlowBumpSetting=0//1
    //Front3rdFastBumpSetting=0//1
    //Front3rdSlowReboundSetting=0//1
    //Front3rdFastReboundSetting=0//1
    //Rear3rdPackerSetting=0//0.000 in
    //Rear3rdSpringSetting=0//Detached
    //Rear3rdSlowBumpSetting=0//1
    //Rear3rdFastBumpSetting=0//1
    //Rear3rdSlowReboundSetting=0//1
    //Rear3rdFastReboundSetting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj00Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj01Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj02Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj03Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj04Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj05Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj06Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj07Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj08Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj09Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj10Setting=0//1
    //ChassisAdj11Setting=0//1

    [CONTROLS]
    //SteerLockSetting=7//576 (19) deg
    RearBrakeSetting=8//58.0:42.0
    BrakePressureSetting=18//76 kgf
    //HandfrontbrakePressSetting=0//0%
    //HandbrakePressSetting=0//0%

    [ENGINE]
    //RevLimitSetting=0//9,000
    //EngineBoostSetting=0//1
    //EngineBrakingMapSetting=0//0

    [DRIVELINE]
    //FinalDriveSetting=1//3.44:1
    //ReverseSetting=1//2.37 (8.16)
    Gear1Setting=0//3.31 (11.41)
    Gear2Setting=8//2.11 (7.27)
    Gear3Setting=15//1.65 (5.68)
    Gear4Setting=26//1.33 (4.59)
    Gear5Setting=38//1.12 (3.84)
    //RatioSetSetting=0//N/A
    //DiffPumpSetting=0//0%
    //DiffPowerSetting=4//25%
    //DiffCoastSetting=7//40%
    //DiffPreloadSetting=1//2
    //RearSplitSetting=0// 0.0:100.0

    [FRONTLEFT]
    //CamberSetting=10//-1.8 deg
    PressureSetting=8//18.0 psi
    PackerSetting=0//0.787 in
    //SpringSetting=2//176 lbs/in
    //SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
    RideHeightSetting=4//2.953 in
    SlowBumpSetting=10//11
    FastBumpSetting=10//11
    SlowReboundSetting=10//11
    FastReboundSetting=10//11
    //BrakeDiscSetting=0//0.709 in
    //BrakePadSetting=0//1

    [FRONTRIGHT]
    //CamberSetting=10//-1.8 deg
    PressureSetting=8//18.0 psi
    PackerSetting=0//0.787 in
    //SpringSetting=2//176 lbs/in
    //SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
    RideHeightSetting=4//2.953 in
    SlowBumpSetting=10//11
    FastBumpSetting=10//11
    SlowReboundSetting=10//11
    FastReboundSetting=10//11
    //BrakeDiscSetting=0//0.709 in
    //BrakePadSetting=0//1

    [REARLEFT]
    //CamberSetting=10//-1.6 deg
    //PressureSetting=8//18.0 psi
    PackerSetting=0//0.787 in
    //SpringSetting=2//176 lbs/in
    //SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
    RideHeightSetting=4//3.150 in
    SlowBumpSetting=10//11
    FastBumpSetting=10//11
    SlowReboundSetting=10//11
    FastReboundSetting=10//11
    //BrakeDiscSetting=0//0.709 in
    //BrakePadSetting=0//1

    [REARRIGHT]
    //CamberSetting=10//-1.6 deg
    //PressureSetting=8//18.0 psi
    PackerSetting=0//0.787 in
    //SpringSetting=2//176 lbs/in
    //SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
    RideHeightSetting=4//3.150 in
    SlowBumpSetting=10//11
    FastBumpSetting=10//11
    SlowReboundSetting=10//11
    FastReboundSetting=10//11
    //BrakeDiscSetting=0//0.709 in
    //BrakePadSetting=0//1

    [BASIC]
    Downforce=0.500000
    Balance=0.500000
    Ride=0.500000
    Gearing=0.500000
    Custom=1
     
  5. BoothJoe

    BoothJoe Registered

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    That setup is a lot better. I hadn't messed with some of the stuff you adjusted. I felt like I had a lot more control and the car didn't seem like it was running on ice. I think for Monte Carlo, the gears have to go down though.
    I'm curious, what's your shift point? I learned to drive "standards" by sound and it seems about 7500 rpm should be the shift point. But that may be for driving the car to the grocery store, if you know what I mean.
     
  6. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    I'd be one to keep the gearing longer at a place like monaco, rather than lower it and have a slightly trickier time dealing with wheelspin.
     
  7. jimagn

    jimagn Registered

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    The BT20 is currently my favorite sim car. It looks like you've already gotten lots of excellent help with setups. These old cars are very different from more modern cars with radial tires and aero down force. I enjoy how much I can feel the car's and tires' behaviors with the BT20. Lots of seat time will help out a lot. I'd also suggest practicing at a vintage track that is less demanding and more forgiving than Monaco. Probably not Spa67, then, either. Brianza66 is ok, but you'll want to practice at a track with more turns of different kinds, and fewer long straights. You could try 75Kyalami, 70sGlen, Aintree, or Virtua-LM's versions of Mid Ohio and Sebring. Pick one track and work at until you're very comfortable, then take the setup to another track. Have fun.
     
  8. P.S.R.

    P.S.R. Registered

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    This is for Spark/Eve but most should apply although BT20 much tamer.

    https://revivalracing.wordpress.com/60s-f1-tips/

    Also keep in mind that in real life shifting takes time so a tight gear ratio is not always optimal especially if you then have to manage wheelspin due to excess power. Now of course having said that I must confess I insist on maximum power at all times because having to manage the right foot is why I sim race :D

    Edit - And if you have an open mind regarding tracks then consider the following which provide much more variety for learning:

    Lester
    Oulton Park
    Zandvoort
    Hockenheim
    Gotham Hills
    Shojo
    South Shore
    Mills Outer Loop A

    Edit #2 - Delta Best might also help with learning the CAR so you might want to use it at a learning track but not at a competition track if that makes any sense because is unrealistic but might help you to more quickly understand the car
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2015
  9. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    If I'm wheelspining at 80% throttle, why am I gunna drop the gears, wheelspin at 50% throttle, and then have more gearshift to deal with? ;)
     
  10. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    I love the sheer inertia immersion let alone physics you get off the F1s and Howston G6 at Italy just after the bridge, get lazy on turn-in let it run a bit wide to induce understeer.

    You come out the other side coaxing, fighting every inch of the way, then even when you start to straighen up and think np she will still push you wide onto the grass.

    Other F1 I drive in other sims I just lift x amount of throttle wait x amount of milliseconds then magically plant my right foot, basically all there is to it.

    rF2 is the real deal BoothJoe. ;)
     
  11. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Whatever works for you and is fast, the beauty of car setup eh
     
  12. BoothJoe

    BoothJoe Registered

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    Interestingly, wheelspin is not an issue for me even with lower gears. Maybe it's because I have a good right foot...I don't know. I haven't resolved this completely in my mind yet, but why I like the lower gear rations is not for acceleration but deceleration. The brakes on the Brabham I find touchy (and that could be because there's no real FFB through the brake pedal) so I find slowing down by downshifting provides better control. With the higher gears I might be coming into a corner in 3rd and really have few gears to downshift into. With the lower gears, I might be coming to the corner in fifth and I have a lot more room to downshift.

    Is there some wisdom in that or is it pure misguided foolishness?
     
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

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    Depending on car lowering gears doesn't always result in more wheel spin. Take the Howstons for example, the have so much power that they will spin even with a long first gear. If you are able to reach nearly 150km/h in first gear, the rear wheels will spin excessively. With lower gear the rear wheels don't spin up so fast.
    I hope you understand what I mean[emoji4]

    Edit: to be more clear, if you spin up the tires with a long first gear you will get more problems as if you would spin up the tires with a short first gear...
     
  14. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Brakes: make sure you adjust overall braking power in addition to moving brake bias to suit your style (for instance, I hate a car trying to kill me when braking as there are enough ways to die, so I'm on the slightly understeering side when it comes to brake bias). Shocks have to be adjusted to match your braking style and the undulations of the track.
     
  15. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    My advice was throttle control that is the prime factor imho.

    But the best way to learn to drive Historics is start with the basics.

    F3 Eves of course :)

    If you can't do a 4:18 around Belgium in one you have no right in being in anything more powerful.
     
  16. R Soul

    R Soul Registered

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    You need to go from aero to zero :D
     
  17. Racefreak1976

    Racefreak1976 Registered

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    *taking notes* ;) Knowledge is like chocolate, you can never have enough of it!
     
  18. P.S.R.

    P.S.R. Registered

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    Makes perfect sense to me. And, for example, it can be more dangerous to short shift than to wind out gears because the difference in wheelspeed if can break traction is larger in a lower gear.
     
  19. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Guess I'm the minority, lol
    The Howston? That thing could almost grunt out of any gear XD

    Lots of laps around Monaco and I always noted I was faster with a slightly longer gear set, rather than forcing myself to use 5 gears. I don't have issue with throttle control/wheelspin, maybe its just through less gearshifts that I was seeing better times?
     
  20. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    In cars like the howstons a power-slide is not a problem. The rock-hard tires can handle it, and it's the fastest way to drive them. Give just enough throttle for some slip angle and then countersteer through the turn. I like to try to slide it just enough where I'm turning when my steering wheel is straight, no more than that is ideal, but it happens lol. To go fast in these cars, you steer the car more with the brake and throttle than the wheel.

    In a left turn: turn the wheel a little left, use the brakes if needed to initiate a small slide, and then start giving throttle and bring the wheel back to the right as much as needed. Try to keep the wheel where it is and use the throttle to adjust your trajectory if needed. Don't be afraid to use the engine compression to your advantage as well. Entering the curve at high revs will help the car rotate tremendously.

    This driving style needs a pretty loose setup and takes practice, but you can go very fast once you get the hang of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2015

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