Different setup options depending on your chosen U.I.? What the??...

I was always using the standard RF2 U.I. rather than the new white ISI one that came out when the karts came out because I heard that the new one had a bug where it didn't allow to to change a certain setup parameter when driving something other than karts (can't remember exactly which setup option)....

Well now I just tried the new white U.I. and I discovered additional setup options that I never had access to with the original stock RF2 U.I. I'm pretty sure I don't have a front track setting with the original U.I., and I also am pretty sure that I do not have a CG height range option with the original U.I. Then on top of this I also hear that the new 3rd party "Minimalist" U.I. doesn't allow you to adjust ackerman when using karts?

So now different U.I.s contribute to different setup options and therefore advantages/disadvantages depending on the car you are driving? Come on...

So many cars have different physics modelling in their setup options, but also in their actual "physical" design, for example some cars don't have 3rd sprngs, some cars have no rollbars, some cars use "seat stays", some cars have track width adjustments, some cars have different types of differential adjustments depending on the type of diff, different general chassis alignment settings depending on the physical design of the car, some cars use "sidepod tightness" bars. etc. Now we gotta worry about mixing and matching a simple U.I. every time we change cars or else we might have missing car setup options, or maybe even just wrong setup options that aren't supposed to even be able to be adjusted for the car chosen in the first place?

Why aren't the setup options changing depending on the vehicle you are driving? We have to manually start mixing and matching entire U.I.s now too everytime we change a car?? This seriosusly needs to be looked at. Different U.I.s should not affect what physics/car setup adjustemnts are available for a car. Everycar has specific adjustments that can and cannot be made to it, a simple U.I. should have no affect on physics and/or car setup adjustments.

 

Do some testing of what effect those options have on cars they're not supported for. Make a choice on UI with the options you want. If a UI doesn't have the options you want, chances are you might need to be logical and not use it.

The Kart UI has options specific to Karts. Crazy, I know. If this is a problem, the logical decision would be to not use it. You've seen an advantage when actually driving? Care to shed some lights on that? I'm not just talking about you thinking it did something in the setup screen, I mean you being able to run an illegal setup that actually changes how the car drives.

You do if you refuse to be logical about what the UI is for, yeah. And don't want to use it for anything except everything else it's not for. Yeah. As said, try adjusting those things you aren't supposed to. See how different the car feels. Feedback would be appreciated there.

With the Kart UI? Because it's for the Kart mod. So it has the Kart setup options only. For the Kart.

No, you have the choice to change UI, or not to. If you choose not to, you're in the same position you were before, and probably won't be so upset.

Not even if it's built for a specific car? You better avoid using UI options which do that then. Many apologies for giving you options on this.

 

Bit of as non issue atm but will be interesting to see how it develops. Will we see UIs that have every single possible setup option regardless of whether the car has that adjustment in its physics files or will we see car specific UIs like we have for the Karts. As you say it will be a bit of a pain remembering to switch UI depending on what car you're running, plus we got oval cars to look forward to and they have stuff like wedge adjustments which none of the current UIs have so we'll probably get a new UI for them too lol.

 

Initially a UI was planned for each 'mod'. Back when we were combining cars and tracks, you'd also get a HUD and a UI. That's where this Kart UI came from. We no longer package content together, pretty sure most of the community wanted it that way. We could have just not released this UI, but it was there, available, why not give a choice? Because people will complain about having one? Didn't think of that.

 

In RFactor 1 I'm pretty sure you see wedge adjustments available to be changed if you are using a car that has those setup adjustments available to be changed, you don't have to choose a complete different entire game U.I. lol.

Tim, of course options are great. I am not saying more options is a bad thing, you know very well what I mean. This is not simply just giving us more options (I wish it were). Imagine only certain U.I.s allowed us to change weather options? Imagine only certain U.I.s allowed us to change fuel levels or wing settings for a car? Imagine only certain U.I.s allowed us to adjust "track detail" graphics option settings?

It has nothing to do with having more options. In-fact we are not getting anymore options, we are still limited to one, because if you use the wrong U.I. then you have car setup adjustments missing I believe.

I just drove the karts for a week without having any idea that I was being limited in it's setup adjustments just because i was using a different look U.I. From what I remember nowhere does it state something like "failing to install the new Kart U.I. means that you won't be able to adjust as many setup parameters with the kart as you're supposed to be able to". Also, if it is essential that the new kart U.I. be used in order to have the karts full array of adjustments available then the U.I. should at least automatically change when you select the kart.

i thought a U.I. was just to have a different look and "feel" when navigating through menus, I never actually thought I had to pair up the correct U.I. with the correct car or else I'd be changing what car setup options I can change on a car.

I don't think you understad why I am trying to say. This has nothing to do with having a choice. It's more like a "you have a choice of U.I.s but if you use the regular RF2 U.I. with the karts then you'll be screwed out of 2 setup adjustemts" situation. That's like giving someone a choice to use 2 different videocards but one video card only runs at 10 frames per second, while the other card runs how it's supposed to (60/120 fps, I'd hardly call that a choice.

 

It would be great if missing options like "Ackerman" would be added to default rf2 UI setup setting and they would just greyed out or write 'not available' if the chosen mod / car doesn't have that option to change.

 

yes it's necessary, this is exactly the point of my original post. I was using the original U.I. because I heard that the nice looking new Kart U.I. was missing a setup adjustment when driving something other than karts, so I figured until it's fixed I'll just use the original U.I.....Well now I tried the kart U.I. and I discovered 2 setup adjustment/options for the kart that were nowhere to be found when using the regular U.I.

I believe (off the top of my head) that they are "front track" and "CG height range" or something like that.

So when we have 100 different cars we have to start choosing different complete game U.I.s just so we can have the correct setup options available for the specific car we use? Just makes no sense. The correct setup adjustments specific to the car you are driving should appear regardless if you have a white colored U.I. or a black and orange colored U.I.

 

All setup adjustments should be in the default UI. The Kart UI could easily have a wrong name in there.

 

If it's simply just incorrect/different wording then I can live with that, as long as the adjustment is there to be found . I'm going to double check. I hope that is the case.

 

I'd consider it a UI fault of ours if it wasn't, for sure.

 

Ok so I just compared the two ISI U.I.s and also the 3rd party "rFactor 2 Minimalist UI 1.56" and all 3 seem to have differences in terms of setup options. Note: I only compared between the F1 karts, not any other cars/karts. I'm not going to sit here for 6 hours writing down every setup for 50 different vehicles spanning 3 different U.I.s for each lol.

Blue means that only 2 out of the 3 U.I.s have this adjustment option
Red means that only 1 out of the 3 U.I.s has this adjustment option

Original RF2 U.I.

1- gear ratios
2- radiator tape
3- idle throttle
4- weight lateral
5- weight distr
6- f/r tyre pressure
7- f/r tyre compound
8- starting fuel
9- number of stops, stop 1/2/3
10- brake bias
11- brake pressure
12- steering ratio
13- front camber
14- front toe
15- caster
16- f/r bar (out, flat, vertical)
17- f/r ride height
18- seat stays (0, 2, 4)
19- sidepod bars (loose, tight)
20- ackerman (min, med, max)


Minimalist U.I 1.56

1- gear ratios
2- radiator tape - called "rad size"
3- idle throttle - called "Brake Map"
4- weight lateral
5- weight distr
6- f/r tyre pressure
7- f/r tyre compound
8- starting fuel
9- number of stops, stop 1/2/3
10- brake bias
11- brake pressure
12- steering ratio
13- front camber
14- front toe
15- caster
16- f/r bar (out, flat, vertical) - called "anti-rollbar"
17- f/r ride height
21- f/r brake pad (1, 2, 3)
22- CG Height (18.5 to 20.3 cm in 0.3 cm increments)


ISI Kart U.I.

1- gear ratios
2- radiator tape
3- idle throttle
4- weight lateral
5- weight distr
6- f/r tyre pressure
7- f/r tyre compound
8- starting fuel
9- number of stops, stop 1/2/3
10- brake bias
11- brake pressure
12- steering ratio
13- front camber
14- front toe
15- caster
16- f/r bar (out, flat, vertical)
17- f/r ride height
18- seat stays (0, 2, 4)
19- sidepod bars (loose, tight)
20- ackerman (min, med, max)
22- CG Height Range (18.5 to 20.3 cm in 0.3 cm increments)
23- front track range (104.1 to 110.1 cm in 0.3 cm increments)
24- rear track range (113.1 to 118.8 cm in 0.3 cm increments)



So to summarize, when using the F1 kart...

- Original RFactor 2 U.I. - does not give you the option to adjust #21, #22, #23 and #24.

- "Minimalist" U.I. - does not allow you to adjust #18 , #19, #20, #23, and #24, however it is the only U.I. which does allow you to adjust #21.

- ISI Kart U.I. - the most complete of the 3, allowing you to adjust almost everything that both other U.I.s allow you to adjust + also being the only U.I which allows you to adjust #23 and #24. The only thing missing in the ISI Kart U.I. is #21 which is only available in a 3rd party U.I., however the fact that #23 is only available in a 3rd party U.I. could be an indication that ISI never intended this option to be adjusteable in the first place, in which case the 3rd part U.I. could, in a way, almost be considered a "hack", and possibly not "fair/legal" in terms of vehicle setup adjustments.

In case I missed anything / made a mistake please correct me.

 

I believe theres a point in this discussion.
If every 3rd party mod starts to bring a specific UI then in couple of months we have 20 diferent UI´s wich we need to be constantly changing wich obviously makes no sense. If it was like in RF1 where the UI was automaticaly changed, then no problem at all.

Every one wich dont read ISI fórum (and not all buyers do), will be in the dark about this issue. Theres nothing nowhere saying that Kart mod needs to use Kart UI. So basicaly people wich grab the karts from download page without knowing this will be in disavantadge comparing to people wich knows about it.

I think the way of doing this should be on upgrades. If a mod has the option of something diferent then people should be able to change it in upgrades. Ok, we wont have a full linear 0cm to 100cm but we can have 3 or 4 options and avoid all this non sense.

Something to look at.

 

I agree the default UI should have all the available options for each vehicle. I hope this can be fixed soon

 

Yes this was the point I was trying to make. However from Tim's response (post #12) it seems like ISI did not intend to do this, may have just been something they missed in rushing the karts out for all of us to enjoy. If it was a simple mistake then that's totally O.K. in my books . Hopefully my post #13 above can help clarify things.

 

Where do you find this 'white' ISI UI?

Thanks

 

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/19089-Karts-0-991-and-Quebec-SuperKarts-1-07-track-available

 

Unfortunately (and mysteriously) it's not on the official ISI RF2 downloads page. It's only listed on the official release thread in the forums. Here you go http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/19089-Karts-0-991-and-Quebec-SuperKarts-1-07-track-available . You have showroom, HUD, and U.I. Showroom is the background seting of when you are in the menu and selecting a car (for example inside a garage, an all black background, etc). HUD is the different style tachometer, speedometer, etc. once you're actually on the track racing, and U.I. is basically a different look/layout and "feel" to the entire game menu system, from the menu options, to the garage setup, to the "monitor view", etc.

Edit: Beat me to it MarcG

 

Well, that explains that then. I know at least one real-life karter who was asking why there wasn't track adjustment...

+1 for the standard UI being modified to encompass all options. I'm guessing some of them (including all the kart specific ones) weren't even options when the UI was made.

 

I'll let the devs know either way. Thanks for the work.

 

You're welcome