Cheating

Tikal Sport

Tikal Sport

Registered
Hello!
I drove the Daytona / 992 Cup special event yesterday. I'm a mediocre driver and don't practise enough, my best time was 1:46.4. The aliens probably manage 1:44.xxx or even 1:42.xxx. What was very strange, however, is that the rev limiter didn't kick in for those who set very good times. When I drove along, the Porsche reached 290 km/h without stuttering (rev limiter). Mine stuttered at 282 km/h. As there is no setting in the setup, I am now wondering whether there has been cheating here. It's not that important to me, but it would be nicer to know that everyone has the same conditions.

By the way, the race went disastrously for me, but at least I didn't finish last!
 
Interesting topic in general.

(there has been a link to vid but was removed - why?)

Concerning the top speed: I am not familiar with the 992 Cup Porsche, but does it allow to change gear ratio? If yes this could be one possibility. Another question would be if lowering rear wing will increase speed at lower RPMs (but this would be a bug IMHO as wheel rotation will be the same wether high or low downforce also wheel slip increases a bit with low wing)?

I noticed that certain kind of drift through curves does lower lap time and does add sector time - I am not able to drive that way (noticed it when it happens by accident and the sector time display changed from plus to minus) and I cannot say on which tracks at what curves it will work.

There are a couple of other aspects, like your age, your practice time (as it was said in the (removed) linked video: practicing for hours and hours on the same track does not meet reality, where drivers have only one or two hours practice sessions), setup of the car, setup of the server, your hardware (how comfortable do feel with) and so on.

Funny enough at Simracing:Justfair we have a driver who is always the same time ahead of me on every average track (lets say them tracks around 4 to 5 km) and I know why: it is the driving style and especially the style of shifting gears and practicing time. Maybe also the car.

Also I can reduce that time difference by using VR instead of triple screen setup - for what reason ever.

But - I have to agree basically: cheating is possible in many ways IMHO and I think it does not start with exploits or mods to the game itself.
 
Gearbox cannot be adjusted. This is all very worrying if you seriously intend to create perfect conditions with rFactor 2. But well, it's a realease candidate, maybe there will be further patches to prevent this.
 
Tikal Sport said:
Hello!
I drove the Daytona / 992 Cup special event yesterday. I'm a mediocre driver and don't practise enough, my best time was 1:46.4. The aliens probably manage 1:44.xxx or even 1:42.xxx. What was very strange, however, is that the rev limiter didn't kick in for those who set very good times. When I drove along, the Porsche reached 290 km/h without stuttering (rev limiter). Mine stuttered at 282 km/h. As there is no setting in the setup, I am now wondering whether there has been cheating here. It's not that important to me, but it would be nicer to know that everyone has the same conditions.

By the way, the race went disastrously for me, but at least I didn't finish last!
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There will always be cheaters. I've never seen the point of cheating, all your doing is cheating yourself. If it happens too often people will not bother entering races. Any loop holes in the system need to be investigated sorted as soon as possible.
 
I don't remember cheating as an issue in RF2 in the last 12 years, but everything is possible. But maybe the explanation is simpler: does the rev limiter effect is propagated in multiplayer ? Maybe they are subject to the same "rules" as you, just you can't hear their limiter.
 
Comante said:
I don't remember cheating as an issue in RF2 in the last 12 years, but everything is possible. [...]
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It is exactly what I am thinking about and I did not experience cheating for years - but to me it has not something to do with "injecting" something to rF2 necessarily.

If I ignore the rev limiter statement I would say it is downforce setting (but in my case it is just the opposite effect as I am driving low rear wing normally and I am loosing time in curves / corners).
 
Lazza said:
@Tikal Sport default setup for me at Daytona oval (to eliminate corner exit as a factor) tops out at 288. You should be asking about top speed and setup factors, not a thread called "cheating".
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The title is a little bit misleading (or maybe offending), but ...
 
In the replay, everyone manages 289 - 290, including me, funnily enough. But I'm quite sure that the rev limiter kicked in at 282-283 in the race yesterday.

Either I'm wrong now, which I don't really believe, or I'm going to a psychiatrist to have my general cognitive functions tested.

Even if I'd had the extra 7-8 km/h in the race, I wouldn't have finished in the top ten.
 
Tikal Sport said:
In the replay, everyone manages 289 - 290, including me, funnily enough. But I'm quite sure that the rev limiter kicked in at 282-283 in the race yesterday.

Either I'm wrong now, which I don't really believe, or I'm going to a psychiatrist to have my general cognitive functions tested.

Even if I'd had the extra 7-8 km/h in the race, I wouldn't have finished in the top ten.
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Ok, lets say while battling / racing messing up a 282 or 283 with 288 is done very fast - and I would say it happens to us all from time to time; said this I still think your question is valid.
 
Tikal Sport said:
In the replay, everyone manages 289 - 290, including me, funnily enough. But I'm quite sure that the rev limiter kicked in at 282-283 in the race yesterday.

Either I'm wrong now, which I don't really believe, or I'm going to a psychiatrist to have my general cognitive functions tested.

Even if I'd had the extra 7-8 km/h in the race, I wouldn't have finished in the top ten.
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I would not disregard the possibility of the reply not being 100% precise on the data which it outputs.
 
StoneRacing said:
Ok, lets say while battling / racing messing up a 282 or 283 with 288 is done very fast - and I would say it happens to us all from time to time; said this I still think your question is valid.
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I'm not too sure what you're aiming at with your posts.

First, on actual cheating: absolutely possible on any game, in various ways. To think that any particular game is the only one susceptible would be like getting a virus with Antivirus-X and believing that others give you 100% protection because you aren't aware of getting a virus when using them.

On unrealistic exploits: no game or sim has perfect behaviour, so the very fastest drivers will have learnt to find the best ways. That in itself is a skill, and the top level real life drivers are doing the same thing - but of course we can't suspect the physics is wrong there. (Imagine Alonso's Renault steering antics in a sim without a real life precedent)

Endless practice etc: I'd love to see variable wind (at least) to remove the perfect reproducibility factor for events, but you can't avoid people using ideal conditions for practice and car setup. Procedurally generating tracks X hours prior to an event would be cool, but these days real drivers aren't going in blind; they're using sims too.

What I've seen very often is people thinking they're a great driver, finding out others are going 3s a lap faster, and assuming it's "because cheating." The line between making the most of all options and cheating can be blurred (and people can have different opinions on what's acceptable), but mostly the difference is still driving.
 
You COULD say corner exit x Length of Straight determines Vmax. But the OP was talking about hitting the Rev Limiter sooner than some of the other drivers. Rake, drafting, tire pressure, ride height etc could help determine a top speed, but if the car is gear/rpm limited then there is only so fast any car should go.
@Lazza pretty much already proved it was simple to hit 288 so one should verify clearly if RPM limits are being incorrectly applied to some online drivers and not others.
Start the discussion over with a replay to show the exact circumstances.
 
When you're hitting the rev limiter, speed is determined by the max RPM, the gear ratio, and also the diameter of the tire, assuming the same grip.

With lower pressure, the tire can be stretched more due to the high centripetal force at high speeds and the lower tire stiffness. A tire increasing its diameter 2cm can produce an increase in speed of 5Km/h. Maybe a 2cm difference only from the pressure difference sounds like a lot, or maybe not really, but just as an example of a factor which is hard to control.
 
Maybe a 2cm difference only from the pressure difference sounds like a lot. It does (unless we’re talking about dragsters), and do you really think rFactor models that?
 
Few years ago I have been testing on tire expansion. And it worked quite spectacularly. It was long time ago, so I don't remember details. I have few screenshots of test. There were also some video on YT from early rF2 years testing tire expansion. I am not sure if it appears in replays, it might only be visible while in real-time in free view. I wonder if pressures can have any effect on tire expansion, perhaps even higher pressures would result in more expansion, as there would be less tire deformation at the contact patch, and there is already air pressured inside trying to expand.

Very confusing thread... Anyone did actual tests of a car ? I don't have it.

Just random look at YT:


He reaches 288-290. But thats from 10months ago.
 
Seven Smiles said:
Maybe a 2cm difference only from the pressure difference sounds like a lot. It does (unless we’re talking about dragsters), and do you really think rFactor models that?
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There's a track on the Steamworkshop - Mojave Proving Center - which should allow for this to be checked easily.
 
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