Discussion about the subject started in Assetto Corsa thread. Lets continue here and leave Assetto Corsa thread for discussion about that game. Also, would you like to see additional FAKE caster setting in game for FFB purposes? Leave your comments below.
not sure what your trying to prove or to gain reaction.. But this seems pointless dude but... The pivot points of the steering are angled such that a line drawn through them intersects the road surface slightly ahead of the center of the contact patch of the tyre on the pavement by a distance called trail. The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centring for the steering — the wheel casters around in order to trail behind the axis of steering. This makes a vehicle easier to control and improves its directional stability (reducing its tendency to wander). Excessive caster angle will make the steering heavier and less responsive, although in racing large caster angles are used for improving camber gain in cornering. Caster angles over 7 degrees with radial tyres are common. Power steering is usually necessary to overcome the jacking effect from the high caster angle. Some street car front end alignment calls for different right side and left side caster. This is called cross caster and the difference is called the spread. Cross camber may also be specified, but not usually both.[3] tbh i dont care if its right or wrong in a game, for me its the only parameter that gives torque align steer forces without going extreme on all ffb effects. It worked in the f2.. s397 didn't think it was that much of an issue. I also feel a lot of the early ISI cars suffered with weak self align forces and this was the only fix to make them feel somewhat realistic to me. The indy car was a huge suspect back when most ppl used caster to fix the weak steering/steer force!
"The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centring for the steering" - True for road cars that has very little toe in. "large caster angles are used for improving camber gain" - true for race cars that have lot of camber and might even have toe out in front. And the point im trying to make, if large amount of people are using this setting for RACE cars for the purpose it is used in ROAD cars, then there might be call for artificial caster setting for ffb boost. High camber angle requires higher caster to keep more of the wheel in contact with surface. Chopper motorcycles with long fork have high caster (horrible to aim to anything!). Sportbikes have low caster (easy to aim to apex even very late, unstable on exit, hence steering dampers). Now you see with high caster angle the wheel tilts as it turns, THIS is why it is needed for high camber.
not really as most of s397 cars have a decent feeling ffb in regards to aligning torque only ISI ones seemed too weak in this aspect.
@Kelju_K For which RF2 cars do you think it is necessary to modify the caster to increase the feeling ? Curious about it. If I chose the most realistic simulation of the market, it is not to add fake effects, just my way of seeing things.
i need fake effects unless i have a 6dof sim motion rig, Vr, with ultimate pedals, dd wheel, etc.... or a real car in a real track. Anything less is fake effect
I voted no. so i dont use it for that. First of all, it's a mistake to think any of the available setting options individually. Like in my earlier post i made out the relationship between caster and camber, so it goes for everything. You have to think everything as a whole. That's why i pointed out in the first place in the AC thread, that using it to give more self alignment (for ffb) shatters the whole picture that you have to think about. Because then you would have to compensate wih camber and toe, that leads to compensating even more with springs, dampers and swaybar (to adjust roll for he new camber and toe, which is allready backwards) and so on... TO GET BETTER FFB!!?? Totally backwards thinking that gets you completely lost about setting your car for the best laptime AND consistency. THAT was my point initially about the whole subject.
I don't do it but if it helps LokiD or others get a better FFB feel in a few cars, I don't see what's the big deal
But caster does effect self align forces in real cars I get that then in turn effects other setup characteristics etc But in a sim game it really doesn't make much odds. Your assuming the sim is 100% accurate in its tyre engine which it isn't.. Yet. It's a sim game that uses toy wheels to replicate forces by a digital car. Hmm Look this thread is a waste of time and I think your just trying to belittle people with what you think is setup knowledge. To be honest I don't care I've tried endless setup changes but they don't effect ffb as well as caster hence why again S397 added it to the f2. And again its not something I've needed to do at all on s397s cars, so old method and old topic.
I'm probably more inclined to reduce caster so I can better feel grip loss at the front. I got used to that sort of sensation with rF1 FFB (using Realfeel or not; though using standard FFB I did tweak the settings to help) and when I run high caster (which most people seem to use for stronger FFB) all I can feel is centering force. Or in comparison to what I'm used to. However, I'm aware that by doing so I might be compromising the actual car setup and ultimate performance. I should probably just get used to it instead. @LokiD there seems to be a misconception that ISI 'fixed' the F2 with the new default caster setting. They didn't fix it, they stepped away from reality to cater to general consumer hardware and expectation. People didn't like how it felt because it wasn't what they were used to, plus weak consumer wheels made it feel worse than it otherwise would have. Low caster was the easiest-to-change factor in that supposedly wrong feeling, so they provided an alternative (and made it default, which is controversial, but means the jump-in-and-go players - who are least likely to understand why the FFB feels weird - won't think anything's wrong). For most cars the FFB doesn't do strange things like it does in the (correct) F2, changing caster just makes the overall FFB weaker or stronger (and with a different response). I don't think adding some sort of fake caster for the purpose of FFB is the right way to do things, as it's confusing the issue. If the FFB strength is an issue then change the FFB mult to suit the current setup. This is a pain, and it's why I personally would like to see the game ship with an FFB mode aimed at consumer wheels which automatically adjusts the FFB mult based on the current setup, so that lowering caster doesn't end up with a lower FFB peak. The game can get the FFB mult very close with some calculations on data it has immediate access to (essentially a quick behind the scenes simulation of some mid-corner scenarios) and will save the user some test runs to find the right value every time a setup change that affects FFB is made. Then you move the steering torque capability setting into the UI so people with powerful wheels can set that and the game stops its auto adjustment.
I did ask about some sort of non dd type ffb option before the f2 Introduced the fake Caster option. But it seems S397 new tyre model is better on my t300
It's pretty simple in my view, the number one reason people use fake caster is that their wheels are too weak to begin with. G25/G27/G29 outputs something like 2.3 Nm torque. Thrustmaster wheels are little better, but they are still far from the ~15 Nm that real race cars peak at. So when you drive the F2 car for instance with a 2.3 Nm peak torque wheel, it's no wonder that 90% of the forces will feel mute on default settings. Only the max force, which you get from high-speed cornering, has any "feeling" to it. The interesting thing is that a car with lower real-life peak forces will actually feel stronger in rF2, as the "average" FFB gets higher when the range of forces is more limited. So when you drive the kart for instance, it feels about the strongest car in rF2, when in reality it has a much lower peak torque than an F2. Now you can go about solving this in many ways, but one is to add caster. I don't see how that's any less fake than adding centering spring or other fake effects. Bottom line IMO is that it's never going to be close to realistic unless you buy a direct-drive wheel.
What’s the problem, I really don’t see it, you don’t actually believe that everything in real life applies to a racing game as well. Because our senses are restricted within a virtual environment we have to compensate with other “effects” You don’t really think that all the info that we get through the steering wheel is what you get in real life do you. From my experience of real life driving/ track days, I’d say the real life sensations coming through the steering are atleast 50% less than what you get in any game. And let’s not pretend that the physics engine and tyre model don’t allow for unrealistic setups that produce the fastest times, even race pace times too. Every racing games physics can be exploited in some way or another, no single one is bang on realistic
Guys, for you, which cars have an insufficient FFB feeling, which could be improved or not by the caster ? The FFB seems to me "nice" on almost all cars (T500RS).
Mercedes AMG GT3 not adjustable. Nissan GT 500 adjustable. Try to increase it with the Nissan and you will notice less FFB loss while cornering.
