I think the whole write up is a iRacing conspiracy. hehehe Even though I run a open rookie room I got to agree with Guy on this, sorry. I want rF2 to be iRacings or any other sims equal when it comes to hardcore league racing quality. Doesn't that mean a better sim for all of us. ? Big plus with ISI is freedom in concept but a lot is to be said for iRacings format and concept as well. So why not meld the 2 together !?? lopl Again sorry for ranting on but this is where I see a Pro version of rF2 extensively refined for Pro levels drivers. IE: Competence in gated shifter and clutch and driving ethics, strict rule enforcement, fully checked and registered add-ons only. yadda yadda It could even have licence requirements. It would have its own separate servers for all leagues that would need to be licensed and registered and conform to set rules for championships. That would free up the normal server and version for more open ROOKIE lopl races and aids/rules friendly leagues. It is not discrimination against Rookies either, I AM ONE, rather should be looked upon as something some drivers could strive to attain and could overall enchance ISI. Maybe I just crazy.
You have lots of fans and followers, you should be trying maybe a touch more to drive the point home to them that, no ISI doesn't suck, how could a sim with some of the best physics suck? Why does ISI or any video-game suck because of GFX? Why does ISI suck because lots of people online aren't the fast or best drivers in the world? Why does a game suck if the gameplay is some of the best around?... Look at many, if not all, of the Formula 1 teams' multi-million dollar simulators, do they suck because a lot of them have rF1 style graphics? Imagine how absurd it would be to say that the F1 teams' sims all suck because they have even worse graphics than rF2. Do you think Alonso, Hamilton, etc. say their teams' sims suck because of GFX??..... Look at how many people love Call of Duty even though the graphics suck compared to Battlefield 3 and 4, but a lot of people just like the simpler faster twitch-style gameplay of COD, GFX has nothing to do with them staying up until 5 AM trying to get that last kill, just like GFX has nothing to do with staying up until 5 AM trying to get that last tenth of a second, or that perfect tyre pressure change, or whatever. You should be "getting into people's faces" when they dismiss or straight-up bash and diss one of the most enjoyable and pure sim-racing experiences (in terms of pure driving gameplay AKA physics and FFB ) just because of GFX or some people online being not high enough skiled for them. I mean how could some people be so shallow and narrow-minded as to pre-judge a simulation's driving experience because it isn't superior in terms of from a purely graphical standpoint? It is absurd, immature, and extremely pre-judgemental of them, when the gameplay will rock their world . You should be getting this through there thick skulls with your entertaining and popular videos , I'm sure MANY will be thankful to you for it. I know my friend is...... My buddy came over and tested rF2, GSC, and AC over a 7 day period. He never criticized the GFX of any of the sims (he even started with AC first). I mentioned a couple times to him before hand "just to let you know the rF2 graphics aren't going to be as good as the AC graphics" etc etc. By the end of the 7 days he chose rF2 as his fav sim and the one he wants to get into....This is a guy coming from consoles and mostly Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4, he thrives on GFX, yet he said it himself something along the lines of "these aren't just video-games where you sit on a couch and just play for a bit of fun here and there, this is something where a lot of skill and and concentration is required and it's all to do with the the gameplay, the graphics are so minor compard to the gameplay, the driving itself, the feeling behind the wheel".... This is a hardcore console BF3 and BF4 guy saying that....so my point is that people are really missing out with their whole 12 year old "I use GFX to pre-judge the gameplay, addiction, and immersion of playing/driving a hardcore racecar driving simulation", it's messed up how many people are missing out and don't even know it and may never know it. My buddy is ADDICTED, and he would probably be just another one to judge on graphics, pics, videos, media exposure, etc. if I never actually made him try these sims. Now he couldn't give a crap about the GFX, HE IS IN LOVE . This, again, is a hardcore console BF3 / BF4 player we're talking about.
No he shouldn't! It's not down to him or anyone else other than ISI to get out there and do the promotion work. ISI need to be out there showing the good stuff and explaining what is happening with regards to stuff that is being worked on. Everyone is sitting back waiting for the community to do the work, ISI need to promote their own work themselves, it's not down to the community to sell the game or make facts known.
You got a point. I used to criticize ISI a year or 2 back about advertising and such, I kinda just gave up.
You have missed the point, you are still stuck on me "bashing" ISI. It doesn't matter what you say when the people haven't tried it, or aren't being told to try it by a friend in the room with him. Yes it's shallow, but initial impressions are pretty important when you consider to a lot of people, they won't understand the difference. I've seen people say F1 2013 is the best most accurate representation of driving an F1 car, because when he drives it looks the same as the guys on TV. Yes, we are laughing together at that comment. It's silly. We know it's not even close to true regardless of whatever sim we may be fans of. We know whatever F1 car in whatever sim you choose is much closer to what driving an F1 car would be like. You can tell someone they are wrong, but until you get them to actually try it out - they won't have a clue. In fact many of them will think you are simply bashing on their game. How many people think Gran Turismo or Forza is a real manly man hardcore sim? Again we are laughing. But when you are watching a video from that perspective, you see a guy driving in sort of the same fashion as what you do in Gran Turismo or Forza - where is the difference? Now why would someone who believes they have the most realistic game out there because a marketing tagline said so, a thousand cars, tons of tracks, rain, lots of players online to race with, night racing, great graphics, want to play a game that looks like rF2 can often end up looking like? I can shout until I'm blue, but they won't care. They say seeing is believing, well in the case of sim racing, driving is believing. But first, you have to get them to drive. That's the big one, and you can only expect so much from someone. Unlike Battlefield or CoD, no one is mistaking them for a realistic modern battlefield experience. They may prefer one because it has more positive realism feature, but we all know no one just hops in a tank whenever they want, they realize no military is dropping nukes to kill a maximum of 9 bad guys. But this is different - Gran Turismo is the real driving simulator. That's the real stuff man, they even have GT Academy! So yea, these people think - and well and truly believe - GT / Forza / F1 201X is the real deal, the most authentic racing sim out there. CoD / BF - not so much. Or I should say, ARMA. A game which has no competition. rFactor 2 has competition. But say I get that person to try it out for themselves. They are greeted with the demo, told "figure it out" (how many guys know for sure what a green real road setting actually does? We had a thread on this a couple days ago, for something that simple!*) and the not so easy to master and far from ISI's highest quality content, C6R at LRP. I think everyone agrees this is a poor combo, even ISI it seems - posted on my Kart video from ISI - I think that will help, it's probably the best they could have at this time (it's a good car, drives well, though I think the FWD FFB may confuse many drivers who aren't knowledgeable on why their wheel feels so weird to what they are used to) - but stick with the Vette for now. Say this new guy powers through that. He's seeing the difference between a real sim and the real driving simulator. He's enjoying the learning curve. He buys rF2, decides he's going to go racing. He starts out racing AI. He's getting the hang of it a bit. Time to make that "massive jump" a lot of newbies feel to online racing. Even then, pretend this person decides to go online and there are people online in a public server. He gives himself a inner "pep talk" consisting of "it's a damn game you fool, have fun" - wait, download this tra - no download failed. Try this server - yay, it worked. He's now potentially in an overstuffed server, driving a car he might have next to no practice in but is driving because it's pretty much his only option. He's a fish out of water. This poor fella could be a perfectly acceptable driver, but he could be so timid online because he's afraid of ruining someone's race in this potentially foreign car he's all over the place. Where does he learn? Where does he get comfortable racing with other people in cars that are significantly more difficult to control compared to what his console self was used to? Many leagues will gladly accept these guys, many guys will help them learn, and guys like Hammer - err, Durge have even hosted servers to help them. But what if they don't want to drive a 1960s F3 car? Or a Skip Barber car? Let's be honest, both great cars to learn with, but who actually wanted to drive that when they first started? Again, this is not the real world where you have to start at the bottom, this console hot shot is experienced enough he's driven sub 6 minute times at the ring ffs, and you expect him to drive a 60s F3 car? Now say there is no one online in a public environment. He's supposed to go straight to league racing? This guy is "fresh off the boat", not even fully sure he's going to enjoy this long term, he's not ready for a league yet in his mind, he's worried, he's scared - how many people take this hobby as more than that? This isn't console racing, this is big boy super serious PC sim racing! They've seen the rig videos on youtube, they have $6000 super special sim rigs and stuff! It's certainly a largely wrong stigma we have had placed on us, but that is the truth to the outside, that's the truth behind almost all PC gaming - "pc master race" anyone? The constant belittling people because they play a console game? "You aren't hardcore enough" attitude? It may be entirely false, but that is not what they are thinking. Sorry, but you can only expect so much from someone. To even get them to realize more or less "everything you know is wrong" is hard enough without the game fighting back against you. Trying to tell someone who's been doing this for 15 years "you don't get it" because they don't see league racing as sustaining rF2 any time soon does not help. Telling people they are silly console peasants because they thought their game was super hardcore and realistic doesn't help. You can't win every battle, you must pick and choose to win the war. You can say "get in their face", but again - that creates the "SILLY CONSOLE PEASANT, YOU ARENT WORTHY YOU PU$$Y" stigma. This isn't bootcamp, it's a video game. Maybe I'm different because I grew up playing anything from Midtown Madness to Grand Prix Legends, from NASCAR Thunder to Nascar Racing 2003 season, from Need for Speed to F1C, but sorry, I don't see it as sustainable. The last thing we need is for the video / demo / gameplay / online system to be fighting them. To you or I or many other people, it's not intimidating to race online. We've done it for years, it's where the most fun is and we all know it. But think back to your first race online against real people in a sim. Chances are, you were slightly nervous. There is a MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE "perceived" jump from offline racing to online racing. That alone will keep many people away, not even including people who's hardware / connection can't handle racing online. Do you really think telling them how entirely wrong and stupid they are for enjoying Gran Turismo helps? Do you really think telling people league racing is all that there is and all that you should be interested is helping? Choose the battles smartly and we can win the war is the way I see it. We can only sacrifice so many "soldiers" out there on the initial impressions bit, because we will take heavy losses in the middle years of the war. If you understand the analogy. Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I think we can do better than where we are.
Too MANY under developed sims......the solution is to pool resources{manpower and budget} and start building bigger and fancier sims, then everyone's satisfied, for example, if a genuine sim with 50 cars existed replete with up to date GFX/Tech, then that would more than likely sell enough to justify a sizeable budget. rf2's problems are manpower/budget related and if poor sales are true, then upcoming improvements will be modest.
But the spark/eve f3 is exactly what they should be driving to begin with. And that is exactly what they should be hearing from people they trust who can influence them. And they should be hearing candid assessments of where they fit in to the conversion process from console to sim racer. It's really quite simple if you break in down and stop trying to influence what isi is going to do. Think about various sim racing candidates and address their needs with respect to credible information and guidance. Rf2 and other sims are going to be what they are going to be. Frankly, i think rf2 is better for isi not listening then if they listened because most people are stupid or ignorant. Having saif that, putting another controversial car in the demo is a mistake. What needs to be in the demo is the f3 and whatever else that is the least controversial. Also if we want to promote sim racing then why so much comparison between sims? If you want to sell something and you have several alternatives then you want the customer to buy any one of them. You don't want to compare them critically against each other. You want to emphasize the strong points of each. Why can't ac be the gateway drug to rf2? Doesn't necessarily mean ac is bad. It is friendly, has good graphics, is easy to drive. What makes someone want a pc sim anyway when there is gt5 and forza? In many cases you woukd think it is more depth and challenge. Perfect, ac is a start and many can stay there. Some will want more challenge and one thing we all agree on is that rf2 is more challenging than anything else. Fine. They people will get what they want. Do you have to invest in a little fiddling? Yes. Do you need to learn how to drive? Yes. Might you need to join a league to get the racing you are looking for? Yes. Might you need to join a league with other sims also to get the racing you are looking for? Yes. Move along people. There is nothing to see here. All this hullabaloo is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to confuse people into watch more stupid videos. Period. Let people play forza. Let people be lured by ac. Let people be addicted to ever increasing content because they and/or their sim is shallow. Let the deeper type people discover rf2 and use the judgement they have to figure there must be something to rf2 if so many love it. It's like a century bike ride. Why woukd someone want to ride a bike for a hundred miles? Simple. Because there must be a big payoff. And there is. Likewise, parenting involves sacrifice but the payoff is arguably the greatest possible reward. Rf2 can be challenging from many perspectives. There must be something special about it, then. And there is. And yes surely there is something special about any sim. All the better then. Like i said. Nothing to see here. All the sims will be fine. Anyone who wants to make videos should find something magical and attempt to represent that. Or rebuke criticisms that are false which is way more important than being critical and thinking you are some sort of consumer advocate or thinking you are powerful and can influence isi because you are not. My personal favorite would be to embark on a truly journalistic endeavor to go deep into the bowels of rfactor 2 and join a league and fully document your experience and efen be poetic about capturing the magic of the experience and you might want to try to find a post from a guy that documented in detail his preparation and testing for an endurance race and also the race experience itself. In fact i will find it for you when i am done. So be journalistic. Be a true sim racing advocate by pointing out the positives. Show people the magic they otherwise would be missing out on. The last thing i think about when hearing all the crticisms is that it is going to help sim racing. Ok i am going to get that post from the endurance guy and in return any video jockies reading this shoukd commit to truly exploring the most intense and technical that sim racing has to offer. And does that mean that hard core endurance racing and testing and motec anaylsis, etc., is for everyone? Nope. But it is awesome and for some comes after a long history of successive technical progression in the hobby. That's enough for now. Lemme get that link. Shoot just giving exposure to this post may enlighten many. Edit - found it! Just giving this thread some exposure woukd do wonders i think efen to just allow people to better understand some of these 'rf2 fanboys' http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17063-A-little-tale-of-preparing-for-a-Race-on-RF2
What they "should" be driving doesn't work in my mind though. I should also be exercising 40 minutes a day and eating less meat. So should many many others. It's not happening though. It's where I somewhat agree with Empty Box, people outside of this niche area of racing will not be lured by a slow and underpowered car running with 60's tech and tyres. You need to get them excited about the product and after driving, hopefully they have enjoyed the experience and are curious to buy the sim and see the other content. The F3's don't have the wow factor at all, in much the same way when we see someone new judging rF2 based on its graphics. There is no wow to them when held side by side with whatever other game they have come from. Similarly it needs to be something that will not be a monster pain in the arse to drive, which is where I feel the C6R is a proper hard car for a demo run. Something like an updated version of the 370Z would be great. Or some sort of vehicle like that. Enough power, decent tech and something that won't be stupid hard to figure out. Topping that off would be a dedicated demo server for them to try online, where only the demo content is run and they can have a taste at online racing with other humans. That also gives a place for league type guys and people who enjoy showing others the ropes a place to teach some fresh drivers and get them excited about going further into sim racing. In a perfect world...XD You never know though, with us being humans and all that. It could end up being be a place where trolls and haters wreak havoc with legit new guys trying it online for the first time, being a free and open demo. Abuse, crazy crashing, etc. What more would you need to piss new and old guys off.
Same to me...sorry, but i couldn`t find something completly wrong with the video & article. There are some arguments, wich are sadly right. Maybe a fanboy would write it a bit different...but at the bottom line, it`s not wrong.
Maybe i'm getting old with not so modern ways to be, but why is there often in these days more energy put on pointing out the not so (yet) great stuff instead of focusing on all the good and unique things that exist right now? There are so many things that are unique about rF2, with features serious sim racers have been dreaming about for MANY years. If a true simracing friend want to promote the most realistic sim racing experience there is out there, why not focus on those parts? Why would anyone almost be proud to be an asshole? Humbleness, kindness, respect and politeness are remains from the 20th century?
Interesting thread, many valid opinions - I think #90 is spot on However there might be different reasons for the lag problem than sheer driver count (we did several races with ~20 drivers and didn't have this issue) Here is a video from our last race: There are a few smaller contacts in T1, but despite that there is no clipping, warping etc. - so the netcode is raceable (At around 1min there is a car with lag, but that's more likely due to the guys' internet connection) Since both our servers and (most) drivers are located in Europe, the lag on ISI servers might just be the NSA taking too long for their packet inspection of foreign traffic
Yeah it was worth reading all the drivel in this thread just to get to that video. When he exposes his huge pile of devils dandruff, followed by redtube, my mirth was unabated. Empty you rarely retract on anything, the video you posted showed a problem with a specific build not an inherent netcode problem. I have had races where people warp and I have had them where everything runs perfectly. It's down to the clients and their connections mostly. If we could get pings in the multiplayer lobby it would really help, join servers with high pings and you expect less than perfection. It's possible ISI have not chosen the best place to host their servers. The SkipBarber server stopped working but the ISI megane server was quite well populated yesterday, and I had some ok races on there with no lag and warping. I had the usual getting taken out on the first turn by people t boning me rather than use their brakes, but that is just public servers on any game. I once took part in 2 hours of complete chaos on a Nascar2003 public server, it's how it is, no admin=frequent chaos. Try doing a trackday when some hooligans turn up with an obviously stolen vehicle, you won't be racing them, you will be avoiding them. I think you tell it how it is Emptybox but sometimes you are mistaken especially about this software. It's still a work in progress, we all know that. In the other videos people have clearly shown that close good racing is possible with the software in its current state. Once servers auto kick people for having too high a ping things will improve I guess. I would say the online experience is fairly typical of any software I have tried and that is "variable". Most single and multiplayer software come with a warning stating that online experience may vary from single player. From the days of Quake and UT to the present, sometimes online can suck due to hundreds of things out of the developers control. It's been a while since I had a vehicle jump 200 feet vertically in the air on contact with a leaf, so ISI are improving the netcode, collisions or whatever you want to call it. The fact that the last 2 builds have been a bit iffy for connecting shows that it is being worked on. Fact is just over 2 not 4 years since the public could buy into this work in progress, we still get regular releases, things are happening, you can have nice online races, nothing else is as advanced, and you still have the same people making the same complaints all the time. The software must be good otherwise these extremely unhappy people would have given up complaining and be racing online with pCars and AC.... oh wait. Well knock me over with a feather they are still here, software still installed and used frequently, interspersed with complaining how rubbish it is. Dunno how to explain it other than some of their life must be spent under a bridge waiting for passing travelers to eat. The dude who wrote that article is certainly either uneducated, mis-informed or simply a troll. If AC or pCars went online today, what do you think the public servers driving standards would be like? Think they would be any different in a year? Two? Ever?
Like I said it's fine to include other vehicles in the demo. Not sure whether you are saying people need wow factor to TRY the demo or wow factor FROM the demo but the demo is free so there shouldn't need to be much of a lure to try it and anyone who looking for more detail will get it from the F3 or, better yet, the Skippy.
I even re-read the article now, and honestly, I can't understand why you people are pointing your fingers at Wim. While I disagree on some things (but Wim stated SEVERAL TIMES in the article that this is his opinion, and not a fact set in stone), the biggest portion of the article actually matches my own thoughts. Let's start off with the third paragraph (the first two are more or less an introduction to the actual questions in the article): - "When we look arround in the Sim Scene, it is apparent that the huge former rFactor user base is no more." I would agree on this one if it would be rephrased a little. rFactor 2's userbase is nowhere near the numbers of rFactor 1's in its prime. You can't deny that. I would even go as far and say that this is not an opinion, it is a fact. But is it gone, as stated in the article? I don't think so. What I see is that most users who came to rFactor 2 by having used its predecessor for years are still not seeing rFactor 2 in a completely "useable" state. The problem is, they are used to their (for that time) almost perfected platform (rFactor 1), mods and organized leagues, that they WILL miss one or two things of those in rFactor 2. The userbase is still there, but most are falling back to rFactor 1 because of some small and some bigger issues they have with rFactor 2. At least this is what I'm seeing all over the German userbase. Then there are those who saw the raw brilliance of rFactor 2 and simply can't go back to rFactor 1. But since rFactor 2 still lacks content (careful here: if you disagree on this one, please read my explanation HERE!), they are in hibernation until the content comes out. Count me in on that. It's exactly what would describe my own situation. I love rFactor 2's complexity, and I have absolutely no problems at all to try every little new function so you can have exactly the multiplayer experience you want. From a driver's point of view, I almost had NOTHING to fiddle around in rFactor 2. FFB and controls are the best thing I've ever had right out of the box. Stuff like the automatic Steering Wheel Range based on the car you are using, raw FFB - the best things since sliced bread. But am I using rFactor 2 the way I used rfactor 1 yet? No. Because I'm a picky bastard and don't like most of the content which is available or the stuff I like is not finished/polished yet. I am hibernating. If you would rephrase the bold question above to "is the active rFactor 2 userbase only a fracture of the one of rFactor 1 at the moment?" I would have to agree. This is exactly what I'm seeing. And now there's this stuff with counting players who are online. Let's take a look at this shot I took a couple of minutes ago: We can see 44 people online, spread over 14 different servers. If you remove the ones which are password protected, you'll end up with 29 people racing on 8 different servers. The official ISI servers were completely empty by the way. So I can't comment on the "15 people on average" because I'm not staring at the lobby 24/7 or have some statistics, but surely there are not a couple hundred people online on average. And tell you what? Out of those 8 public servers which have (mostly just one) people racing, there isn't a single one which does interest me. Yeah, the picky bastard I am. But now comes the interesting part: I couldn't care less! I am not saying that using rFactor 2 for public racing is wrong, I would be an idiot if I did. But for me, racing on public servers has never been a lot of fun. The last time I tried it again was with the Civics on Mores on the official ISI server. I haven't done a single lap before on Mores and I have never driven the Civic before. So both were a first to me. There were 13 minutes remaining in the qualifying session, and after those, I was standing on pole position in a grid of 20 people. The race session was basically a 2 man race: In turn 1, there was a huge accident behind me, most cars got wiped except for the guy who was second in the qualifying session. He was able to keep close during the short race, but I managed to win the race. In a car I didn't know. A track I haven't raced on before. Tell you what: I do not consider myself to be a very fast driver, really, but for me, public racing always ends up with a crash in turn 1 and a couple of over-aggressive drivers who survived turn 1. This is not a flaw of rFactor 2, it's the fact that those 10 minute races, in my opinion, have absolutely nothing to do with sim racing. You don't need to worry about your tire wear, your pit strategy, nothing. A proper race evolves over the laps. Starting from 4th position in a 6h race isn't that bad, in a 10 minute race, it's a desaster. So, even if people like public racing (and do it exclusively), you have to understand the position of those who like to race in leagues only as well. I don't know if the majority of those who are using rFactor 2 (or are in hibernation mode until "their" content is here) prefers public or league racing, but if it's the latter, it would explain why there isn't that much going on in the lobby and why there are spikes on passworded servers when there are official events. So, to sum this up: Is public racing in rFactor 2 a ghost town? I would agree on that for two reasons: First, there isn't enough content out yet to please everyone (like we are used to in rFactor 1), secondly I "believe" there's a very, very big portion of rFactor 2's userbase which prefers league racing. <-- Would be interesting if there would be a way to confirm or disprove that. - "First of all the platform received a lot of criticism for its looks." Again, I agree on this one. But that's not down to rFactor 2 itself, it's because of the average processing power available in everybody's PCs. I still hear about people in the rFactor 1 leagues I raced in that they have trouble maintaining playable framerates. In rFactor 1. Yeah, now imagine someone who struggles to maintain 30fps in rFactor 1 on medium/low settings tries to run rFactor 2. There you go! rFactor 2 will run like crap, and at the lowest settings it will look just as poor as rFactor 1, if not worse, depending on the content being used. Is this a flaw of rfactor 2? No! People need to understand that all these new (and mostly awesome!) features require more processing power. It's the natural way of things. Maxing out rFactor 2 can look very good and convincing at times. 2 years ago I said that I would be fine the way rFactor 2 looks if the tech gets more stable and refined and the content and features are there. Now, 2 years later, a lot happened already in the graphics department. And with a 300€ graphics card, you can enjoy rFactor 2 in its full glory at 100fps (or 60fps minimum in a pack) with no noticeable input lag. It works, you'll just have to invest a little. Sure, AC and pCARS do look better, but my framerate is considerably lower in these titles as well. It's a compromise of course. rFactor 2 looks decent enough for me though. So if your point would be "rFactor 2 looks worse than AC or pCARS", well, here you go, I'm in on the "I agree" group. But it surely doesn't look as bad as some people say, like in the comments below the article. Wim didn't write that rFactor 2 looks bad. It's just that other titles are doing a better job in that department. And yes, I feel the same. Point given. - "The installation and updating system is to much of a hassle for the occasional user who wants to jump in now and then for a quick race." Once again, I'll have to agree. But NOT from a personal point of view. I have no problems at all getting the stuff I want up and running in rFactor 2, but the point is, not everyone does. Just because you have no trouble doing so don't except it would be the same for everyone else. I can see it in my own simracing team. Call them veterans of rFactor 1, including how to use plugins, avoiding technical troubles (driver swaps using FFB plugins) and so on, yet they actually have trouble getting mods in rFactor 2 and setting up the game in their ingame UI. I don't understand it either since I think it's pretty easy to use, but the problems are there. I tried explaining a few times what the rfmod files are and why they are downloading them when joining a server. And don't even ask about the thing of removing a mod before installing a new version of it. If you still have a rfmod installed which requires some of your mod's components (like cars, sounds etc), they won't be uninstalled. "This is retarded." is all I hear about such issues from my team mates. And I have to agree to a certain degree. Once you know how to use the system it's easy, but getting there can be frustrating, I understand that. What if you are not a part of a team you can ask for advice, or a league, or anything else? One of my mates was even giving up after he was finally finished setting up rFactor 2 because he got too tired and went to bed. So again - point given. - "While the original rFactor was the mother of all modding platforms, rFactor 2 has been abandoned by many modding teams out there for a number of reasons." I can't comment on this one because I'm not in the modding scene myself - unlike Wim. He knows how to work with rFactor 2 as a modding platform, so I won't and can't disagree on his comment. I can only imagine that modding for rFactor 2 with its much higher complexity and still changing platform is a much harder task than it was for the "stable since years" rFactor 1. It's a burden you have when delivering a much more advanced platform with tons more tech under the skin, especially when said tech is still WIP. Besides that, delivering much more detailed models, better sounds and even more accurate physics (the community actually asks for it!) will eat much more man hours than we can imagine. I don't know if some of the "elite" modding teams really did abandon rFactor 2. Yes, some are releasing mods already, but, let's face it, if rFactor 2 would be the absolutely best option for all modders out there, why didn't Enduracers announce that their Endurance Series will make its debut on rFactor 2? This is the mod I am waiting for personally. And being an endurance mod, it screams to be released for rFactor 2 since rFactor 2 has all the features needed for proper endurance racing: 24h day/night cycle, dynamic weather, RealRoad, driver swaps, damage, pitstops, all kinds of adjustable race settings - it would be a perfect match. Yet they haven't decided if they should bring their mod to rFactor 2. I don't know if they are doing that to just not hype people years before the actual release (such huge mods will take A LOT of time, ask team NLC about their VLN mods!), or if they are really considering not to bring it to rFactor 2 at all. The point is, I think it's an alarming signal when there is no other platform out there which has all the features rFactor 2 has for endurance racing, yet they are still waiting. About the netcode... This isn't in the article, but mentioned here in the thread a lot. So far I had absolutely no trouble with the netcode at all. The warping stuff only happened with one build, and you were able to fix that yourself by deactivating that new prediction code in your PLR. No problems since. Like RJames said, you can drive in a full pack, side by side, including light contacts - works perfectly for me. When racing public, make sure you are joining a server which is close to your location, in the same state/country at best. TL;DR Don't blame Wim for stuff he didn't say. He has merely asked a couple of questions, and while I think some could have been rephrased a little bit, I still see what his intentions are. At the end of the article he clearly stated "I can't start to state how much i would want this platform to succeed.", and it's the same for me. rFactor 2 has its flaws, yes, and a lot of rFactor 1 users didn't make the transition yet for some reasons. For me, the question is not IF rFactor 2 will see a big increase in players, but WHEN. Switching to another platform is no option for me at the moment. And I'll be honest with you: If there will be a better platform for my personal taste of simracing, I will make the switch. And let's be honest, you would do the same. I am not an ISI fanboy, but a racing fan. But so far, rFactor 2 is the only platform which is worth using, at least for me. I own all racing sims except for GSC (the content didn't appeal to me, sorry), and so far there is nothing on the horizon which is pulling me away from rFactor 2. But using it actively? Not with the missing / unfinished content. rFactor 2 spoiled rFactor 1 for me technically, while rFactor 1 still spoils rFactor 2 for me when it comes to content. I'm only speaking for myself here (and probably the leagues I took part in in rFactor 1), but if Enduracers would release their updated Endurance Series mod for rFactor 2 you would see an explosion in leagues using rFactor 2. But like most of the stuff written in this thread and Wim's article, this is just a personal opinion. Don't take it as a fact.
It's monday morning in the US and monday afternoon in Europe. It's also a holiday period. I would expect numbers to be low in any multiplayer software right now, except for NZ and Aus? Even for them it's a weekday night in a holiday period. I would agree it isn't the most popular online racing software right now, but he insinuates in the article it's all over, dead, buried. People are just sitting there waiting for one of these "graphically superior" titles to have online capability? You touch on the point that makes most sense about the numbers. If you are floundering around trying to get 60fps you aren't experiencing the software anywhere near its full potential. You could easily make the mistake of thinking the software is no good. Old hardware really doesn't cut it with rf2. I expect you get the same disparity with any cutting edge software, people make the mistake of thinking "dx9 = old graphics card will do". Maybe ISI should change the recommended minimum specs? People buy or upgrade to new pc's to run the latest battlefield etc, if they did the same for this software there would be nowhere near as much griping. I personally couldn't imagine going back to trying to race at 60 fps, or 90, the difference in how you perceive this software when you run at 150fps on a 144hz monitor against 60fps on a 60 hz monitor is massive. It's like two completely different pieces of software.
