BOP AI GT3 packs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bhendrik, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    Let’s start by saying RF2 is my first choice of sim. I mainly drive against the ai because for one, i think the ai is very good. Secondly, i work fulltime so i have limited time to start up my PC and enjoy a couple of hours of endurance racing against the ai. You can see a problem here, limited time and fan of endurance racing.

    I really like the DLC’s studio 397 has released lately, the GTE and the 2 GT3 packs. Although i think that the BOP of the cars when driving them yourself is very good, there is a problem when you let the ai drive rhe different cars.

    I create virual drives and the set the talent files (rcd). So if the cars were evenly balanced in example the GT3 packs, setting the speeds and minimal speed settings to let’s say 90 and 85 for each different car should let to the same laptimes, there or about.

    With other mods ( like the apex gt3 mod) you can balance the ai strenght per car. So you can set the Porsche ai strenght to 95 and the other cars to 100 for that circuit if the Porsche ai is a bit faster around the lap then the other cars. That’s quite handy ans saves a lot of time because you don’t have to fiddle with the talent files for an hour to balance the cars against each other on that circuit.

    Like i said, that option has dissapeard in the DLC’s from Studio 397. There is still a possibility to BOP the ai cars by setting the talent files (rcd). But is vere, very time consuming to get it right.

    There is another problem with that also. The Bentley for example is easiest the slowest of the cars on any circuit even with the talent files maxed out to 100 voor speed and minimal speed. Although it differents somewhat from track to track, here are the speed settings for each GT3 car of the two packs wich i use, and still the Bentley is a second of per lap

    Speed and minimal speed
    Bentley. 100
    Callaway Corvette. 65
    Mercedes. 90
    Mc Laren 650. 93
    Radical. 50
    BMW. 89
    Porsche. 88
    Audi. 90
    Mc Laren 720. 81
    Aston Martin. 66

    So hugh differences in speed setting and still the Bentley is to slow. I normaly drive with an overall setting of 100 or there about in the overall ai strenght.

    So please @studio397, can you give us a possibility to BOP the cars ai strenght per manufacturer/ cartype back? I guess the reason why is has dissapeared has something to do with online machtmaking or something but for the single player community it is an immersion killer, not much fun, and very time consuming.

    Is there a way to get solve this ( ofline and online version) for your DLC’s? And if you take a look af this, can you please chrck the ai stability when going a bit off the racing line as well. Although the ai behavior from the DLC’s is quite good, it’s all over when they go a bit off the racing line, getting on curbs, braking off the ideal racing line etc. The backside of the ai cars gets unstable and they are spinning out far to much. Mainly the Porsche (GTE and GT3) the Audi, but other cars as well. Looks like they can use some torque stability ( i think it was called in RF1). It can be done. The URD Detroit and Apex GT3 cars do not have this problem. Hmmmm could be tyregrip also, now i’m thinking of this beacause from my understanding they din’t use the new tyres yet.

    Would like to know other opinions for these findings as well. It’s not to critic the developers but to make a great sim even better.
     
    Audere est facere and Hazi like this.
  2. Audere est facere

    Audere est facere Registered

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    Your are already my friend !
    I started yesterday the same procedure of BOP but I stopped getting even more frustrated with every new car I checked.

    So this is my subject at all, the AI ! And the mods available out there.

    As we are just a little com with 5 drivers with diff skills (from 3 to 6 seconds diff when AI is set around 100%, sometimes little less sometimes more) you can imagine taking part in an organized league TOGETHER is very difficult so we did end up with running or own endurance races (based on laps but each race lasts 90 min at least) with AI on board. As we wanted the AI beeing as good as humans in regards of stability and staying on track this was more work I ever expected ! As I just started with rf2 2 month ago (had no clue about mods an
    all this stuff) I hope I am not wrong in what I am telling you.

    But I can tell you how we did it for having fun fun fun with good AI behaviour.

    Just one little thing, you are talking about MAX and MIN speed. But as I understand this is wrong. There is no MIN speed but a MINRACESKILL. This is a mutliplier not a fix figure. A driver can have speed = 65 but minraceskill = 90. (Speed x minraceskill while having a bad lap but you need to set the AI limiter >0)

    The most important thing you need is an OPEN MOD were you can rework everything ! The HDV file is the key ! We are using the STK GT3 mod.
    When I had a first look for talent files I thought this is all fine but what about the real speed ? So at the end of the day you will end up with an AI running the same speed on long straights. But for the AI itself this is an killer. After watching the behaviour of it I wanted to create different top speeds (more for the top drivers less to the bad ones AND a little mix for mixing up the timetable). So I thought I can assign setups to the AI. But this was rubbish cause as far as I understand you can only apply a setup to a car/track combo NOT to a track /car+driver combo. So this was not the solution.

    So I reworked the HDV files. Now every car in this mod has up to 4 HDV files. In the veh file of the drivers it is now looking like that :

    HDVehicle=SBR_488_gt3\488_gt3_1.hdv and for another one HDVehicle=SBR_488_gt3\488_gt3_2.hdv

    In the main mas you can add as much HDVs as you like with diff setups for the cars. So each driver/car combo is able to have complete diff setups. And by changing the wing settings for each car you will end up with diff top speed on straights and you will have diff acceleration for same cars. This makes the AI overtaking easily and not loosing much time behind slower drivers (slower due to speed in rcd file). Depending on tracks 1 ° more wing can make a diff of 6-8 kmh on long straights.

    Next thing to do is getting rid of the blocking line. This is one thing the AI is running into trouble cause this forces change of lines much to often. You can find this in the player.json file

    "AI Logic Override":1,
    "AI Logic Override#":"use bitfields to disable certain AI behaviors. 1= blocking line, 2 = flexible superspeedway driving line",

    Ok, some will say that they want the AI to fight them. But as I say ...beeing faster should not end up in getting in trouble with AI. And if the blocking line is not well done...hmmm.

    And now the most important thing. You need to check out every track for the max limit of the AI skill in regards of staying on track. For example : On Silverstone GT layout everything more than this combo rcd speed = 100 and AI skill >95 will end up in a desaster for cars with the engine in the middle or back (Becketts corner !!!!) . This is for sure just for our modded mod so I am talking mainly about Ferrari, Porsche and the Lambo). This is all taking so much time, nearly killing the joy. Therefore I am looking for someone who can tell me how to give those cars more grip via physic files for not loosing the back while hard braking in corners like becketts. Double S seems to be the most prob for AI overall.

    And for all those mods out there it is the same...no one stays on track without reworking them. I think this is due to the matter oft fact as they are almost built for online use with human drivers. The Endurance mod for example witch is hyped all over is not usable for online racing racing against AI ...it is the ultimate desaster. Tested yesterday on Autodrom Most...they can not handle this track but STK mod can !

    So as I am just a bit off topic ;) I like to end with getting back to it.

    The BOP MUST be done for using those cars against AI ! And after testing each car I also like to say that the FFB seems to be very much different from car to car in regards of details and strength.
     
    bhendrik likes this.
  3. gunner1483

    gunner1483 Registered

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    Lower this value in the player.json file. Ferrari, Porsche and the Lambo will have more grip.
    "AI Corner_Grip Usage":0.98,
     
  4. Audere est facere

    Audere est facere Registered

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    Thx for this unexpected fast answer. And by the way..I was running the Lambo in our first little CS. And the Lambo on your pic is as a matter of fact the one I use (skin) for my best AI driver in our grid. Funny. And this car has the most probs setting the rcd speed more than 80.

    But I do not understand. As this value is in the player file ALL cars should have more grip with this change. Am I right ? And why lowering this value ? From the point of mathematics I would expect to raise this value besides it is the value when loosing grip. Give it a try now.

    EDIT : Now I understand but this was not the thing I was looking for. Now the AI is not trying to use that much of the grip of a corner which means just they slow down. I am looking for an physical effect not for a change in speed. But nevertheless thx, learned another thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  5. gunner1483

    gunner1483 Registered

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    btw: Do anybody know why the ai is slower at night than during the day?
     
  6. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    @bhendrik
    Yes, the Bentley is too slow, you need to decrease the speed for the rest even further.
    I always do races with 30-40 virtual drivers so within the same manufacturer I use a range of different speed values to have a nice mixed field. This is what I'm using and it's working pretty well. I've used those values for months with the original GT3 pack so I've tested it in many many tracks and just recently added the challengers with good results.

    Speed value range
    Mercedes - 37 - 66
    Bentley - 76 - 93
    Callaway - 22 - 41
    McL 650S - 37 - 63
    Audi - 39 - 63
    BMW - 36 - 52
    Porsche - 36 - 55
    McL 720S - 36 - 57
    Aston M - 35 - 49

    Hope this helps.
    I do agree with the AI sometimes being wonky even if the racing line is well done. I've seen it especially with the Merc.
     
    bhendrik likes this.
  7. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    I asked that wuestion 3 years ago with no definite answer. Think it is a build in thing from the game. But we can’t change that. Searched the whole json file already. Workaround: set ai strenth just above yours, can’t keep up eith the fastest ones during daytine, but i can catch them during the night. That wiil even it out
     
  8. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    Agree, only problem is thar i do endurance races for let’s say six hours. Drive two stints myself and then i let the ai take over for two hours. My co ai driver has a set strenght. So... the ai get wonky, when esspecialy when you set the strenth to high and their speeds in the rcd files to above 85. The unstable GT3 cars, the Porsche, the Audi end the Merc, will drift out of fast corners, hitting the grass or a high curb or slamming into a concrete wall. Your co-ai-driver wiil do the same if you drive one of this unstable cars. That’s why i don’t drive these cars in an endurance race with an ai-co-driver.

    Thanks for your ai settings per car. These settings are even lower then mine . So if you want the ai to be compettative (as fast as you) you will have to raise the overalk ai strenght to above 100
     
  9. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

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    Yes of course. AI strength is track dependent anyways because of a number of factors so I don't set the same strength for all tracks. I do practice runs first to determine what's the best AI strength for each track. Virtual drivers with these settings will overall be slower than the base content but the important part for me is that I no longer have one manufacturer always dominating or at the end of the pack
     

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