Michael Borda
Car Team
You can view the page at http://isiforums.net/f/content.php/219-Tyres-The-Big-One-%28Part-III%29-Realtime-Model-Batch-Tests
Article: Tyres... The Big One. (Part III) - Realtime Model Batch Tests
- Thread starter Michael Borda
- Start date
Helio Zuazua
Registered
Superb
TheGame316
Registered
Thank you Michael. a couple of questions at the moment though.
1. Following the Info Desk on the spreadsheet. Each time you Copy and paste test values to custom_realtime.ini. Do you overwrite the previous tests. eg Perform initial test, then when copying def test values do you overwrite the initial test values.
2. Info Desk 2C when you say relevant parts, I am not 100% sure what you mean but have a feeling it may relate to my first question, could you please elaborate.
3. Info Desk 3A you state this should be adjusted prior to running other tests. Does this mean if changes are made here, that I should go back and redo the initial and deflection tests before continuing onto the 4-Test sweep.
4. Could you elaborate on the static and sliding diffusive adhesion values please.
5. In relation to multipliers, you state a warning regarding the use of values significantly divergent from 1.0. What is considered significantly divergent?
6. With quite a difference in the information provided in the tgm quickstart guide and what is in a current tgm file, is there a plan to update the guide.
Do you think it would be possible for you to make a video showing how to do the basic tests as outlined in the spreadsheet. Seeing something being done, rather than reading can help get the information across clearly. Also considering that the vast majority of today's modders do not have access to complete tyre data, some form of troubleshooting guide would also be helpful. eg. You are wanting to change a certain characteristic, look at x values but be mindful that changes here will affect y values.
1. Following the Info Desk on the spreadsheet. Each time you Copy and paste test values to custom_realtime.ini. Do you overwrite the previous tests. eg Perform initial test, then when copying def test values do you overwrite the initial test values.
2. Info Desk 2C when you say relevant parts, I am not 100% sure what you mean but have a feeling it may relate to my first question, could you please elaborate.
3. Info Desk 3A you state this should be adjusted prior to running other tests. Does this mean if changes are made here, that I should go back and redo the initial and deflection tests before continuing onto the 4-Test sweep.
4. Could you elaborate on the static and sliding diffusive adhesion values please.
5. In relation to multipliers, you state a warning regarding the use of values significantly divergent from 1.0. What is considered significantly divergent?
6. With quite a difference in the information provided in the tgm quickstart guide and what is in a current tgm file, is there a plan to update the guide.
Do you think it would be possible for you to make a video showing how to do the basic tests as outlined in the spreadsheet. Seeing something being done, rather than reading can help get the information across clearly. Also considering that the vast majority of today's modders do not have access to complete tyre data, some form of troubleshooting guide would also be helpful. eg. You are wanting to change a certain characteristic, look at x values but be mindful that changes here will affect y values.
Michael Borda
Car Team
1. Yes, you overwrite this file, but this file is really just a batch command to tTool telling it what to do. You are 100% free to rename this file as you wish, e.g. "custom_realtime1.ini",...2,...3 etc, if you prefer this method. You'll just have to enter the correct name in ttool.
2. Well, the thing is, new tests from ttool are appended to the existing .csv file, until you restart ttool or change the filename of the .tgm. So in certain cases, you'll need to be careful about what you paste into the realtime tTool batch test generator. For example, after completing the first 4 'initial' tests, the first 4 lines (5 if you include the headings) in the "CustomRealtimeTable.csv" file will be those initial tests, which have to be ignored for the other tests that you will have done.
3. I simply meant that it should be done prior to lateral / longitudinal tyre tests, etc. They are actually in the correct order. You shouldn't need to rerun any previous tests if you change the damping values in the tyre.
4. I covered static and sliding diffusive adhesion in a previous blog entry. With it, in theory, we could simulate a gecko sticking to the ceiling (or if you put some really crazy values, a whole car). If for example, you had a contact area of 0.01m² and you had the maximum adhesion force (2nd value), of say 10000, under optimum conditions it would bond to the ground with an assumed force of 0.01*10000 = 100N.
5. Significant in this case would be more than about 15-20% in one direction or the other. So a reasonable range for this value would be 0.8-1.2, but I wouldn't take this as an absolute. Certainly the closer to 1.0, the better. In any case, if you have a working tyre, and need to use 0.6 or something, then you're still better to keep that value at 0.6 until you have a new working version of the tyre with a new lookup table completed.
6. Indeed the old guide is a bit lacking in areas. It's something I'd like to get around to doing. My intention is to release some minor fixes and improvements to the spreadsheets that were released previously, first. So yes, but it might not even be ready this year.
The video idea is something I've been wanting to do for a while. I need to look at my options but it's certainly something I would like to have a go in the short term.
2. Well, the thing is, new tests from ttool are appended to the existing .csv file, until you restart ttool or change the filename of the .tgm. So in certain cases, you'll need to be careful about what you paste into the realtime tTool batch test generator. For example, after completing the first 4 'initial' tests, the first 4 lines (5 if you include the headings) in the "CustomRealtimeTable.csv" file will be those initial tests, which have to be ignored for the other tests that you will have done.
3. I simply meant that it should be done prior to lateral / longitudinal tyre tests, etc. They are actually in the correct order. You shouldn't need to rerun any previous tests if you change the damping values in the tyre.
4. I covered static and sliding diffusive adhesion in a previous blog entry. With it, in theory, we could simulate a gecko sticking to the ceiling (or if you put some really crazy values, a whole car). If for example, you had a contact area of 0.01m² and you had the maximum adhesion force (2nd value), of say 10000, under optimum conditions it would bond to the ground with an assumed force of 0.01*10000 = 100N.
5. Significant in this case would be more than about 15-20% in one direction or the other. So a reasonable range for this value would be 0.8-1.2, but I wouldn't take this as an absolute. Certainly the closer to 1.0, the better. In any case, if you have a working tyre, and need to use 0.6 or something, then you're still better to keep that value at 0.6 until you have a new working version of the tyre with a new lookup table completed.
6. Indeed the old guide is a bit lacking in areas. It's something I'd like to get around to doing. My intention is to release some minor fixes and improvements to the spreadsheets that were released previously, first. So yes, but it might not even be ready this year.
The video idea is something I've been wanting to do for a while. I need to look at my options but it's certainly something I would like to have a go in the short term.
Feralarri
Registered
Hi Michael Is there poss an error in 3 Test-Crr or am I doing something wrong here?
When I paste results from this, the LongVel value is the same for all tests whereas your results sheet shows an increasing velocity.
When you look at the 3 Test-Crr tab it shows the LONGVel at 13.89 for all tests .
When I paste results from this, the LongVel value is the same for all tests whereas your results sheet shows an increasing velocity.
When you look at the 3 Test-Crr tab it shows the LONGVel at 13.89 for all tests .
Last edited by a moderator:
Michael Borda
Car Team
Sorry, the vBulletin software on the site is kind of iffy in some ways. I didn't get notified. I'm not seeing any attachment to your post, but I think I know the issue of which you speak.
There's a kind of logic bug in the spreadsheet.
To work-around it, simply delete the 0 from cell B2. I'll try to get an update done soon.
There's a kind of logic bug in the spreadsheet.
To work-around it, simply delete the 0 from cell B2. I'll try to get an update done soon.
Feralarri
Registered
Thanks Michael
I have worked it out I believe. B2 should be zero, B3 I changed from 0 to 1 and I changed B5 (# of steps ) from 510 to 6. This then caused the longvel to repeat its pattern every 6 steps. I have attached a before View attachment 20975
and after
View attachment 20976
shots showing the cells changed in pink
I have worked it out I believe. B2 should be zero, B3 I changed from 0 to 1 and I changed B5 (# of steps ) from 510 to 6. This then caused the longvel to repeat its pattern every 6 steps. I have attached a before View attachment 20975
and after
View attachment 20976
shots showing the cells changed in pink
Last edited by a moderator: