Thats a good one, might actually be one of the reasons to leave. jokes aside , whatever the reasons may be , this is a loss for kunos for sure. Aris was very passionate and he caught minutest detail on things ,that only most hardcore of sim racing players will notice.
Yes, and that could be the second reason. The diminishing of those that notice whats good. At least in AC for sure. Do you think as the numbers of AC players were rising from 2K to 4K to 6K to 10K true simracers, who notice and appreciate what matters the most, numbers were rising. Probably not so much, and in terms of percentage certainly was dropping. Even the ones who are most hardcore AC OG players mdoders and so are purposely ignoring all the shortcomings, and learn to even prefer having them. A lot like it is in every simulation. Instead of being crazy about looking at real thing, then looking at simulation and doing so back and forth all the time to satisfy curiosity and to understand how much simulation is fulfilling its purpose people just completely immerse themselves and transfer their whole attention to simulation, eventually consciously being in some virtual metaverse and ignoring everything else that could possibly spoil it. In some way putting effort on simulating is becoming unrewarding, at such point when people will celebrate anything losely connecting them and not requirign any of those "minutest" details, and in some cases actual realistic stuff that requires more than three minutes to get connected and get used to can throw people off It is not instantly agreeing with what they have become customed with. And modders are big time guilty for that too, because if there are 9500 people celebrating and asking for garbage, there won't be much pleasing of small group of those who appreciates the good stuff. In real world that small group would be havign all the money and that would balance it out haha (super expensive mods incomming ? mark this as my year 2070 prediction). Ironically if Aris is moving to some metaverse project, then it is only getting deeper into the trouble haha, I hope he has success though.
what you have basically said is casualization kills everything, it will earn more money in almost all cases but the ironically the product itself will lose quality over time. The things that has killed normal gaming, is slowly creeping in racing game/sim world as well. Although i hope we still have some good years ahead before sim racing too get way to mainstream causal shite , where public will fight for politics , pronouns , gender of their virtual characters rather than realism. whatever the case is , sim racing is basically dead for me at this point, haven't touched any sims for almost a year now, sometimes i check forums randomly to see something truly exciting is brewing ......but nope. no disrespect ,but lemans game doesn't interest me slightest , then there is assetto corsa 2 incoming ....but with aris and stefano gone .....i'm also skeptical of kunos's future.
It only depends on people. If good stuff gets appreciated there will be good stuff. If bad stuff gets appreciated there will be bad stuff. There are some nuggets of gold in rF2, and I don't see anything getting better anywhere else than these nuggets to be found somewhere in rF2. Aris has said there will be "mindblowing" stuff in AC2, and that he supposedly also worked on. We will see. I think AC is basically controlled by 10s of thousands of fans believing in "AC quality" that they can only describe by "FFB much good", and they won't let it not only to get worse, but also won't let it to get much better, apart usual eye and feature candies that does not fulfill purpose of simulating car handling.
yea the AC fanboys are not the best when their sim is criticized. most don't care and those who think they care only want to hear positive things about AC. Not the best community to take feedback from, RF2 has slightly better community in this regard but you will still find resistance for even the most BS wrong things in RF2.
If you don't touch simracing for more than a year, you don't love this as much as you think... Theres a lot to appreciate, a lot of car/track/weather combinations just in rF2, enough to get you immersed even alone... I have high expectations about AC2, hope i'm not wrong...
@Simulation_Player probably no one likes sour criticism. But I think that once you simply aren't allowed to have different opinion and also whole awesome discussions dies off because accidently some flaw of sim has been touched, then it is too much. There may be no sour criticism, but there will be sour feeling of fakery circus. I don't envy of the situation that Kunos is in. Where they has to be extremely careful not upsetting simracers by making AC2 better in "the wrong way". It has to be better but "the right way" If suddenly "ffb is not as good as it was in AC", then they are instantly in trouble. So they really can't do much better physics, unless they approach it somehow very carefully. So it wouldn't be that typical AC fanboy with entire understanding of past 8 years built on experiencing cars in AC would go in anger "what ! so you say AC simulation was not ultimately best ?!". Not fun situation. And they already were once in this with ACC. I was guilty too, the first impression was awful due to how different it was, although there also were true issues. @Rui Santos I have basically not touched rF2 for over a year. I had few issues that were completely breaking game for me. Solved now. There is indeed so much to experience in rF2, as long as there is no critical issue ruining everything. Lately I have been discovering the road wetness parameter. It was awesome decision to add this to UI. To me it is just simply the best possible setup - wet track (doesn't matter how much), and sunny day drying the track. This way the stupid rain performance hit is avoided and you actually can enjoy the experience. This alone is game changer for me haha. Well I also have luxury of working on many cars physics, thats including adjusting how tires work in wet and also very importantly how fast the AI is.
I share the feeling expressed by @mantasisg. I think only a small fraction appreciates the realistic physics and driving feeling while everyone else is sold on the graphics, content, online,... rFactor 2 has become the bastion for realistic driving when the rest of the simracing community seems more and more headed towards graphics realism and/or online competition alone. The latest being favored by simplistic physics and driving models. Gaming is highly driven by visuals. Consoles and its games are sold almost solely based on graphics alone. It's the field that advances the fastest too compared to others. Online is driven by number of simultaneous drivers. The easiest to drive and engage in exciting races the bigger the player numbers. Realism doesn't help in this case when a lot of your users don't even know how to drive a real car and they don't want to learn. It's only a game to them. Some users get frustrated fast when they can't drive the cars decently in the rookies category because they are good at other titles without effort. Gamers have evolved to less and less tolerant to frustration. Current games try to provide constant gratification while avoiding any frustration to become more addictive. And that's what they're getting used to. Don't expect most gamers to spend hours learning the driving and racing craft. They don't have the patience nor the will anymore.
rF2 and iRacing as well. iRacing is very conservative and slow with developing new features, but they do model every car so that it at least doesn't do some crazy unrealistic things and relies minimally on driving aids. Here rF2 should follow by limiting aids in online competition at least on intermediate level. AMS 2 I try to like and I see them doing work on the physics aspect in the change logs, but whenever I drive it it doesn't feel right. I can pretty much floor the throttle out of the corners with the McLaren MP4/12. Okay, it's the MP4/12 and not the MP4/13 with grooved tires like in rF2, but I can't buy you would be able to just floor the throttle out of a first gear corner on a 1997 F1 car with a V10 engine. If iRacing and rF2 stop existing the age of realistic sims for mass online use on PC would probably be over like in WRC, where sim enthusiasts are forced to mod on a 20 year old game.
I've seen iRacing cars do some crazy things. And I think they're more worried about doing disruptive changes that their fanbase doesn't like than anything else. Slightly disagreeing with all respect to your point of view.
In every chat you used to find one iceRacing reference to iRacing not so long ago. That has improved with later tire model iterations. If I compare cars today the main difference I notice is that rF2 cars have a more aggressive engine brake map (whether more realistic or not I don't know) and iRacing lacks a bit detail in the FFB like flat spots compared to rF2. Few people seem to be aware, but iRacing hired the main guy behind rF2 tire model, Terence Groening, a couple of years ago. This is where the name TGM comes from in rF2 tire files.
Have we seen any update that he had affect on yet? Because I'm interested in seeing the changes that come from it.
I guess nothing yet, not sure if they're gonna change the entire simulation to a more "rfactorish" level, but IMO it's taking too long, that's why i think the amount of money we put onto iRacing is useless... for now! I read somewhere that they were working with simucube guys too, to improve the FFB experience.. nothing also yet...
That's the problem I have with tracing. They talk and say a lot, but in the end nothing really comes from it, and if it does, only very small things
Its not the quantity of cars/track combos that keeps me busy, i'm more thrilled about actual physics updates and getting fixes and new feature on all DLC cars. everything is all over the place in terms of quality , x car has old sound engine , then y car has not received latest physics feature....then there is literally no changes done to core tyre model, aero model , suspension model to further add more realism etc add to that fact , the current DLC offering are not for me. i want something extreme that not only requires proper driving but also some interesting setup choices .....like a F1 car or LMP1 (not modern LMDH that are basically jumped up GT with hybrid thrown in to greenwash the sports , not to mention these cars have BoP ......which to me kills joy). TL;DR > basically there nothing big exciting happening and no fixes on small and big stuff as well......its a non-moving sim from my point of view
Ok, it's a valid opinion, fact is that due to LMU the rF2 progress has stopped, so i understand your frustration (i think it's general around rF2 users). It's a shame that rF2 never got the love it deserved to put everything in place, it's by far the best simulation out there...
It has already the best physics with no other game coming close. There have been improvements to wet surfaces. No drastic improvements in realism will be possible without adding more complexity to the already complex content creation process and without increasing the hardware requirements. Not all content needs the latest physics features. Content is progressively being updated when it's needed and when it's possible because some licenses have expired and don't allow more updates. I think it's possible to enjoy most of the content by just stop worrying about what's old and new. One way to do it is participate in the online competition or compete offline with the improved AI. It's unfair saying it's not moving. It's already at the edge of what's possible physics-wise on a gaming computer and some great improvements and fixes have been done in the last 2 years.
