AI Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DustySticks, May 5, 2019.

  1. DustySticks

    DustySticks Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    37
    So the reputation of rF2's AI is it is among the best for simulations and offline racing. I'm an offline racer who loves endurance content so naturally rF2 grabbed my attention. I have almost 300hrs in the game now and I have to say the AI really disappoints me. It is so unbelievably aggressive and accident prone. No matter what I do with the aggression settings the behavior stays the same. I'm honestly at a loss on how to improve things.

    For instance multiclass races at Sebring turn into a blood bath. Cars ramming each other, nonstop FCY if I don't adjust the threshold for it. Rolling starts seem to also produce a lot of conflict in the field with cars not sticking together, cars running into each other, and sometimes after the formation lap the green flag will never wave and your just stuck in a broken formation lap until you restart the race or in some cases retart the race weekend. It is pure choas and not in a good way.

    In terms of racing the AI I feel I always have to concede a turn or back way off and wait it out if I am in a faster class car because the spatial awareness of the AI is nonexistent. You can't be aggressive at all with the AI because they simply act as if you are not there. Also the AI's pit strategies leave a lot to be desired. I had two cars today run out of fuel because they simply never pit and two more cars somehow get stuck in the pits because they kept running into a guard rail. On top of that the AI seems to pit much more frequently than it needs to in some cars which also makes longer races less immersive because winning can simply happen due to the AI pitting way more frequently than it needs too.

    There are some bright spots that give me hope, but they are so few and far between that I'm at a point of giving up on offline endurance races. The AI's lack of awareness, poor pit strategies, out of control driving style really ruin the offline experience.

    I wish offline racing got some love and these AI behaviors were looked at, but it seems multiplayer is all that's really focused on which is a shame to me because I know there is still an sizable market out there for offline racers.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    bhendrik, ECAR_Tracks and RoboCAT10 like this.
  2. karlisss

    karlisss Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    8
    i also have questions about AI:
    1.
    do ai strenght is created with car mod or with track?
    2.
    what determines that AI races around a track like a train on rails and dont "respect" human racer?
    3.
    Why on the same track for one mod ai is ok, but for other mod its terrible?
     
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    26
    Something bad happened to the AI in the last one or two years. I cannot point my finger at the exact build which introduced those problems.
    There are a lot of combos which used to work in the past, but don't work anymore. For example the Brabhams used to work fine on Belgium1966. The last time I tried, I needed like 20 tries to get a race going, getting most of the problems the OP has.
    Aggressiveness setting doesn't seem to have any noticable effect.
    Does this combo work for anybody? Maybe it's some weird setting on my/our end.
     
    ECAR_Tracks, DustySticks and Levelup1 like this.
  4. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    444
    I would answer in this way.
    1. both have entries that have influence on the AI behaviour
    2. that they drive like a train, can be caused by the tracks AIW file. 'no respect' is more caused by the code
    3. that depends on the whole physics of a mod and also the default setup, that the AI uses, if no other is assigned.
     
  5. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    1,072
    to be actually honest ive not seen this AI "change" for me they have always been the same, give them room though and you will have better races, but they do sometimes sideswipe you etc.

    My issues are long standing ones and countlessly documented in the several other AI threads that have been created. AI stuck in draft. not really pitting for correct wet tyres or as u say pit too often in wet races. and theres more...

    I just wish S397 will get onto the AI next after this ever lasting UI.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    ECAR_Tracks, RoboCAT10, Hazi and 3 others like this.
  6. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    670
    +1
     
  7. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    574
    You have to separate official from 3rd party tracks when judging AI.
    I find spatial awareness of AI in rF2 to be very good, but if the block line of a 3rd party track is not properly made, they'll do jerky unexpected moves and crash into you. The only solution in these cases is unfortunately to delete the block line yourself, but cases like this it's not the game at fault but a poorly made AIW from the creator. Same goes for Rolling Starts....it's up to the creator of the track

    At Sebring I can't remember having the issues you've experienced. I've used the GT3 and Endurance packs at 40% aggression, single and multiclass races and for the most part it's all been good.

    Having said all that, yes, AI still has some annoying issues which you've mentioned, like bugged FCY (to the point I don't even bother using flags anymore and disable them altogether) and the one that annoys me the most, cars pitting for no reason.

    I was hoping this new UI would bring some cool new features like mandatory pit stops as a workaround for this issue but i find it less and less likely it will happen.....hopefully one day
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  8. DustySticks

    DustySticks Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    37
    Thing is the dive bombing and side swipes happen at Sebring too and it isn't just with me. The AI destroy each other as well which is why I'm not just blaming third party tracks. It is an issue for me across all tracks.

    I do agree though rolling starts are more of an issue on third party tracks. They are a disaster IMO at most third party tracks unfortunately.

    I don't mind AI accidents and spin outs occasionally just like they happen IRL, but they happen so much that it just breaks the immersion.
     
    ECAR_Tracks and RoboCAT10 like this.
  9. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,196
    Likes Received:
    894
    The AI does not mess up for me. In practice or first qualify a few of them can mess up overshooting a corner and thats awesome. Next lap they dont. They learn. Just like i learned to do at least a short qualy to make the AI adapt a little bit. I rarely see crazy AI behavior. Of course mods who hasnt been adapted for certain tracks can show crazy behavior. Its either that or you get laserbeam AI that always drive the same path and never mess up/behave more human.

    If only the boys over at S397 could make the AI draft and overtake us. :)
     
    LokiD and fsuarez79 like this.
  10. Pales

    Pales Registered

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    172
    They're well aware of the issues with the AI, but given that that the original developers were unable to adress these, it is highly unlikely Studio 397 will be able too. AI will remain unchanged for many years to come, they're focusing on MP.

    We can only hope that the iRacing AI is above and beyond all other sims.
     
    LokiD and ECAR_Tracks like this.
  11. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,407
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    I've never seen these issues with the ai at sebring and I usually run aggression 60%+, I recommend a fresh player.json file as that might fix the ai oddities.
     
  12. Pales

    Pales Registered

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    172
    The draft and overtake is such an important one. I really wish this would be fixed...
     
    LokiD, ECAR_Tracks and Alex72 like this.
  13. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    444
    I have never used it and i also don't know if it still works, but there is an AI learning functionality, that could help to improve the behaviour of the AI.
    At least i do remember, that people have reported that it helped to improve the AIs driving.
    I can not give instructions about how to use it, but i think that google will help. :)
     
  14. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    312
    Yep, the AI needs a bit of love. Formation laps and FCY are atrocious. I agree that some mod and track combos are worse than others. I also agree that the offline SP mode could do with being dragged into the 21st century.
    Having said all that I'd like to add that some mod and track combos are reasonable, it's a mixed bag.
     
    Emery, ECAR_Tracks and LokiD like this.
  15. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    93
    The AI in the wet is a mess. They start on wet tyres when it’s wet (alright that’s okay), but they then pit on the first lap for dry tyres, only to then pit a lap later for wet tyres again. In some cases they start on dry tyres in the wet.

    I use to have a frustrating issue where the AI would pit every 5 or so laps in the wet for new wet tyres. I could not for the life of me find any information if this was being looked into or not. However I did find a solution that has worked for me - as soon as the lights go on out, restart the race, the AI no longer have that issue.

    Apart from the wet, I’d like to see improvements in their race strategies. I’d love there to be some more variety, I’d like to see the old GDB trick reinstated (maybe not in the GDB though), I’d like to see AI be able to run more than one tyre compound a race. As of now it’s a little boring, the AI strategy. I also agree that on some tracks the AI (even official), can be quite chaotic - I found editing the drivers RCD aggression setting helped me more than editing the ingame slider.

    The AI in rfactor2 is the best your going to get in my opinion. I use rfactor2 for my AI series I do, because I know there isn’t anything out theee that can offer that much better. I would like to see improvements too because there as so many that can be done if more time is out into offline. I get online is all big and fancy these days, but there are still a lot of us who love offline, and for those who don’t care or have the time for serious online leagues.
     
    bhendrik, Alex72, LokiD and 6 others like this.
  16. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

    Joined:
    May 1, 2016
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    430
    Just tried a GT3 official cars race now and almost half of the field went in to the pits at the first lap with no reason (there was no accident forcing them to repair). So, it's disappointing to say the least. And yeah, I don't remember to see this sort of AI behavior that two years ago. There's something screwed.
     
    LokiD likes this.
  17. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,330
    If you are qualifying in the rain, you should let the full Q session expire before moving on to the race. You can accel time if offline, but the AI 'generally' should stay on wet weather tires IF you let the wet Q session complete.
     
  18. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,407
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    What track? What were your AI settings? Did you have Fuel or Tire Wear at accelerated rates? Any wet weather? More information please :)

    I've informed @RoboCAT10 of this many times before, maybe he needs reminding :)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  19. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    93
    Doesn’t work for me, believe me I’ve tried. Also for my purpose, I can’t go straight from qualifying to the race, as I need to manually select the grid - but as I said in my previous post I’ve found my own solution.
     
    LokiD likes this.
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,407
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    Then maybe the tires are "broken" somehow in the mod you use? (or the mod itself). Every official mod I tested the workaround with worked perfectly fine.
     

Share This Page