ISI vs Modders - Realism vs Easy Control - 911 street cars and Escort MK2 RS1800 1.1

The skip is too hard, the skip is too easy. The cobra is too hard, the cobra is too easy.

It's not the handling that is science fiction. What is science fiction to me is the way a personal and subjective opinion about a simulation almost has to be taken as fact. We all hate lying to ourselves, right?

I have seen posts from a few who have driven the skips. The rating of the sim versions put them all around the spectrum. And with the cobra, I recall one guy who owns 2 and races one of them saying it was pretty much bang on.

And I looked at 3 spins in that vid. Braking, no throttle, entry to the corner. Go take that thing out on the regional tyres and do the same...please do...I would be eager to see the results

 

There is not much information in that skip barber video. At the start guy drives too fast in to corner and shifts badly in next one. I also wouldn't decide if something is realistic or not by comparing it in a mod (Cobra).

About the skip barber. It seems to be quite rear heavy car which means better grip with higher slip angles on back tyres, so in my opinion it could be quite easy car to do power slides and scandinavian flicks.

 

The Skippy can be spun and lost in an instant but it can also be drifited around a skidpad. I've done it myself and I've seen it happen many times while working at an F2000 school for a year. It's not too different from even an F1 car; sometimes they can snap and want to kill you but I've also seen tons of videos of slides where the driver did not need super fast wheel movements to correct. I just saw a ton of these types of slides this past weekend (F1 Silverstone).

The problem is having a physics engine that can model all the easier, progressive slides at the right time and then, 2 corners later (if necessary), model a very quick snap slide. While having both the "easy" slide and the snapping slide be exhibited at the correct moments and in the correct way.

Sometimes you need to make a car have some vagueness and slopiness/unresponsiveness to it's handling and grip on the limit in order to be able to have the car not always snap out on you in an unrealistic way (many RF1 cars did this, in order to make the high-end racecars more controllable they acted quite vague and un-responsive on the limit I found). If you didn't compensate with that added slop and vagueness to the handling on the limit, then the car would have been way overly sensitive to wanting to kill you in a hyper-sensitive, digital, non-realistic way. Therefore it's a balancing act due to the physics.

As physics engines continue to evolve, there is less need for this fudging balancing act and one day it'll be just like real-life, or at-least so close that we humans can't notice it (or even detect it with telemetry).

 

I have no idea where you're getting this. I've raced both Cobra 427's and competition 289's in track environments, the ISI cobra is almost dead on, especially on the non-street variant rubber. In fact, almost DEAD on. Running times similar to real life down to the second at road america and sears point, with the same amount of step out on the same turns. We don't record telemetry on the older cars so I can't post any data, but I can post a couple videos if you like. Perhaps you're just not as brave a driver in real life as you'd like to think if you're having that much trouble with oversteer? Even the skips are incredibly manageable, I have a couple clips from laguna if I can dig through an older drive

 

I just made cobra rf1 vs cobra rf2 ! When trying to do like cops in movies rf1 spins a lot if you are not very precise. Cobra rf2 goes on sideways and made the corner easily even if you are a bad driver (hard on hand brake, hard on throttle, and late opposite lock) the difference is brutal. So which one is more real? For me when is too easy is a bit boring.

Hei Korva7 ! Maybe someone who has skip barber could try it for us to see.... I my opinion you can't drive it like WRC car in real life.
Bye ! time to try to slide and drift RS1800 on Tranfagarasan Notrh hairpins

 

Sorry animal../. gonna have to call ya out here !

Because anyone with a clue can see that video, that driver is overdriving that carelessly. Rf2 will act like this if you drive like that. I do still think maybe Rf2 old cars (non cpm) suffer from low speed grip, but away from that I think RF2 does capture realism as well as a home pc can.

 

In my opinion that difficult = realistic thing is just a belief. I don't think it's that simple.

 

There you have it, two guys with real world experience who have two different opinions. What's more to discuss? Now if there was data for everyone to interpret then everyone can discuss. I know the D word around here is a naughty one apparently.

 

Well no, you didn't explain anything. You've shown a poor video of a poor driver, driving poorly.

I'd like to understand what you mean but to do so you will need to use words!

It may well be that you are correct. It may be that you have exceeded the parameters that this 'home simulator' can replicate.
It may be that you are a poor driver and don't really understand what it is you feel.

At this point, I can't tell.

 

Did you also test it on ISI tracks ?

About the video, first seconds, seeing the driver's hands positions tell that there will be a lot of mistakes.

 

Sorry just curious if/how others running this car with AI and what settings using to get workable FPS?

 

The best we simracers currently have, I definitely agree. The Palatov is a bloody amazing car in-terms of all simracing as a whole (let alone just RF2) but even it has some all-too familiar vagueness and unresponsiveness at very, very low speeds, e.g. the final corner at Croft where it's as if you're playing an entirely different sim for that one corner. Still one of the greatest and exciting simracing experiences I've ever had in my life though (BTW, it was the 4WD Hillclimb version)

 

@fohdeesha, are your running the ISI Corba OOB (out of the box) or are you tweaking some of the settings? Just curious. I always feel like I need to adjust the diff values.

 

Really ?

3:17 at Longford ! keeps up with Cobras ! ............sorry can't see it.

Thing goes around bumpy road corners like its a F1 and brakes like it has a airdam.. lool

 

What does ultimate laptime have to do with anything? I don't get it.

Drive the 4WD hillclimb version @ Croft. It's exhilarating.

 

Maybe DurgeDriven's post was meant to be a joke.

 

For some reason I love messing around with the slow mo replay when I'm driving the Palatov. Awesome to watch it take off the line with the turbo and 4wd, haha!

 

Nobody answered fpatitucci question which is the most important thing in this thread.
His question is:
"I just made cobra rf1 vs cobra rf2 ! When trying to do like cops in movies (slides) rf1 cobra spins a lot if you are not very precise. Cobra rf2 goes on sideways and make the corner easily even if you are a bad driver (hard on hand brake, hard on throttle, and late opposite lock) the difference is brutal. So which one is more real?"

Of course when racing the cobra rf2 physics is great. But when sliding the physics fell a bit arcade. I did the same test fpatitucci did on bathrust first corner, last corner and hairpin and the result is the same: rf1 cobra spins a lot if you are not very precise. Cobra rf2 goes on sideways and make the corners easily even if you are a bad driver (hard on hand brake, hard on throttle, and late opposite lock) the difference is brutal. So which one is more real? Please don´t post anything before doing this test.

 

I would bet that more data is used for making rf2 cobra. And those high profile tyres would suggest good grip with high slip angles.
If you have seen videos from internet, there people drifts like animals with cars that should be much more difficult to slide around.

 

A second animal, for sure.