I'm new for sim rFactor2 just 7 months. Some one said that "Learning from AI is bad idea." meaning: AI drive with the wrong racing line or wrong Breaking point ? If this is true , what's the better way to learn the correct racing line , breaking point ? In every week I have got new 2-3 tracks launch (Bitsync) and must to learn new track as quick as new track launch. The fastest way to learn is to race with one AI. I can see the breaking point and racing line. Or I push button to make AI drive my car to see how to drive. I would like to learn from real guy but the problem is 0-1 participant in my time 7:00PM (GMT+7). Skip barber Video and iRacing school I saw every month to stick it in my memory. Do you have any advice?
The AI doesn't use the full physics, so it's misleading. Have you thought about watching onboard videos? It gives you an idea of the lines, breaking zones, etc. You don't have to go full speed right away. One step at a time. The Skip video is great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtXCZAnw0X4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zZYBK2cCUA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOSialFsy9I
As far as finding the optimal line on a specific turn at a specific track, that just comes with seat time. There is a plugin around here that shows current variance to your best time or you could use the ghost car to help with improving lap times.
Thank realkman666 for onboard video. AI doesn't use the full physics . It's the limit of software that can't use full physic like Human? Thank Jamie Shorting . Ghost car. My understand is download ghost car of fast guy (not mine) and race with that ghost. Is this correct? Where do I download that ghost car ?
No need to down load a ghost car. Just run practice laps and setup up the ghost car to run. After you set a time the ghost car will run that replay untill you replace it with a better lap. I like to use the delta plug in, less distracting.
I think that learning to drive fast should not start by learning the racing line, but by understanding the car. "Going Faster" by Skip Barber is a good place to start. The thing is - some cars will do well under trailbraking while being understeer at exits, while other cars may not like trailbraking, while being perfectly balanced for applying the throttle early when exiting corners. This determines what racing line you will take. You simply try to get the most of the car by shortening some distances or altering your racing line whenever you feel car has something more to offer in given place. Like Jamie said - this comes with seat time. So your technique and car characteristics determine the best way to go through a corner. This determines your preferred entry point and entry speed. And in turn, these two determine your braking point. I would say learning from AI is good at the start, but after reaching some skill level you will never look back and learn new cars and tracks just by driving them yourself.
Watching a single AI car on the track is better for learning than following an AI on the track. You don't want to follow an AI in your car because the AI play "games" with you if follow too close. They pull in front of you then brake at ridiculous spots, they defend their position if they think you are going to pass, etc... Basically, they don't act "normal" with other cars on the track. So yeah, following AI isn't the best way to learn a track once you've reached a certain skill level.
I just assumed he knows the basics of how to balance a car and not all cars are created equal. That's why I think ghost car or time variance is a good tool. As Quartza says, no need to chase down alien lap times. Just use ghost to improve on your own. Set a goal to improve your lap by half or full second. You won't get frustrated that way.
There's nothing wrong in firing up a track with the AI set to 100-110% to watch them drive around a few laps (and build up rubber). You get to see the lines and have an idea coming in to then do it yourself. A lot of modded content comes with faulty AI, that can be why that someone said that learning from the AI is a bad idea.
Yes, I think it would be too much calculation. I forgot to mention that the AI shifts too often, jerks the wheel, the throttle, jerks around and such. That's why I prefer real video. Look at the steering wheel! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFYMDh9mDps
Chasing the ghost car is my favorite way to self-tune. Hey, he drives just like me! Seriously, I find that if I'm not chasing someone, then I don't improve as quickly. Chasing AI is okay, but you can't drive THROUGH them like you can drive through the ghost car. Then I try to keep the ghost car behind me... this is different than trying to block an AI making a pass.
"You don't want to follow an AI in your car because the AI play "games" with you if follow too close. They pull in front of you then brake at ridiculous spots, they defend their position if they think you are going to pass, etc... Basically, they don't act "normal" with other cars on the track." This is exactly my experience with iRacing! Only with real drivers!
AI can be a useful tool especially with ISI cars and tracks... for instance, treat AI as a consistent test driver to fine tune car setup. Let AI do a few hotlaps, and note areas of difficulty / excessive movement & throttle feathering then head to garage and tune the setup - send AI back out again and repeat until the AI is visibly smoother in it's steering input etc, and faster... then jump in and take over and fine tune to suit yourself. Use AI's hotlap as a target time to work towards, then flip on the transparent trainer so that you can start to chase yourself...
My suggestion would be to forget AI. They will drive the racing line that the track modder decided it was good for the cars he tried and no one knows what type of car was that. Physics are not exactly the same and, as others said, AI is tweaked to behave differently whether they lead or they chase. Use delta-best plugin since it is less distracting that the ghost car. However do not get obsessed with breaking your record each time. Try to drive consistently and keep car under control. You will see how much you improve.
Thank you for all of your replay. Conclusion. Don't follow AI to learn from AI because: 1. AI play games with you. You will don't see the correct driving method. 2. Good or Bad AI depend on each mod. 3. AI drive the racing line that modder decided no one knows what type of that car. Each car has specific driving line and method. Better way: 1. view onboard vides. 2. Ghost car. 3. Watching a single AI car on the track instead of following an AI. 4. use the delta-best plug in. 5. use AI to treat AI as a consistent test driver to fine tune car setup. Thank you again. All of you give me a lot of homework to do with rF2.
I don't think AI even use the same tires... Its not much homework though, as Spaksis said, go for consistency and control, if you get that within whatever level you are, your speed will either automatically increase or you will discover places where you know you can go faster. (and then us AI to just have fun in rf2) I've been racing in a league for decades but currently i'm struggling just as you are, cannot get my head around the mod and tracks we use, I know I should be able to crack the code but its not working at all (mainly lack of practise time and sim-motivation) So I find myself going back to basics just like you are, trying to regain control, stability that will enable me to push (rather then slide and overdrive) All I want is a reasonable pace atm and enough stability to finish races, the rest will come Imo the problem with comparing with AI is that you don't know what to compare yourself with. because their times can easily be replaced by random laptimes you made up and then trying to beat that. With the Ghost car or laptime delta you know what to compare yourself with. vs real humans its even better. And once you can compare, you can improve or at least figure out where you could improve. It a bit like our league's livetiming, on Monday/thuesday I practise and think I am quite fast, and then other drivers start practising and see their times appear on the tables and I am disappoint and realize need to push harder we always need to push harder, never a dull moment hehe. So in terms of homework, track-time is where it's at. the more the better!
I'd try to focus on it like this: 1) Learn the corners and track position. Find out where to go left and where to go right. Then learn to position your car correctly for the entry - that is, make sure you are all the way to the left of the track when approaching a right-hand turn and vice versa. 2) Find the acceleration point. Approach corner carefully to find out what the earliest point in the corner is to accelerate without going off track or missing the entry point for the next turn. 3) Find the braking point. Brake later each lap, until you cannot accelerate as early as you found in 2) anymore. 4) Optimize speed. Now get the laps in to gain confidence and through practice steadily increase the speed that you can take through corners, until you reach the limit.
I would add to the above post: Get used to the car until it becomes a prolongation of yourself. The way each car brakes, accelerates, enters and exits corners can be very different. For example some cars need to be stopped and accelerated in quite a straight line to avoid spinning while others are far more permissive. Some cars are very easy to drive and control while others aren't. If you are performing a spinning festival while driving a car, the track is not the biggest issue. I understand that it is not the case though. However there is a big intermediate between that and mastering the car where you most probably are considering you opened this thread. Let us know if the advice helps you improving your driving techniques and laptimes.
