I posted this in the Blackwater thread since the topic there lead into what my post about. So feel free to read the last few pages there to get an idea of some of where I am coming from in this post if you desire. This may be a bit off topic to this thread but I am posting it here as the recent discussion in this thread has leaned toward a different topic and this applies to that. First let me introduce myself, I am James Mabe and believe it or not I've been creating tracks for RF1 for nearly 10 years over that time I've worked on 14 finished tracks, more that I worked on haven't been publicly released yet. Yet it would not surprise me if no one on this forum recognizes me or has never heard of me. For an idea of what I have done, I started back on F1C, back then I only converted tracks and was learning; I created a small group called Standalone Mod Guys, converted a number of gpl tracks including many that were released with the F1 74/75 mod back then. When rfactor came around I made my first scratch built track, Autobahn Country Club. After that I started doing freelance work; San Jose Street Circuit for Virtual GT simulators, Motorsport Ranch, Texas Motor Speedway, Heartland Park, Mont Tremblant, and Laguna Seca for MSS; Motorsport Simulators Las Vegas Street Circuit, with iDT second publicly released track Ribeirao Preto and Salvador Bahia for Reiza Studios Homestead Miami Speedway, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and Auto Club Speedway, plus 3 more yet to be released tracks for Simraceway Now I'm sure you wandering where I am going with all this. For all these years the one thing I was really looking for was to be able to do this as a steady job and in all that time freelancing I've never accomplished it, at some point along the way I guess I just followed the wrong path to get there, with so many of my tracks being done for private clients or for companies few know I had any hand in making these tracks. So why am I here, well like a lot of people I've been waiting to see how Rfactor2 developed before making any more on doing anything with it and lately seeing some of the more recent track releases like Putnam, Poznan, Loch Drummond and Mores has Rfactor 2 appearing in much better light for me now. I feel like I can creates tracks to this quality myself and if I can't get a company to hire me then maybe I can work for myself much like URD. I can see by the many post here that people are looking for more quality track developers, I personally have an interest in all types of tracks, my his proves it I've basically created every type of paved circuit there is at some point and I have a healthy interest in classic tracks as well. So the question is, would anyone be willing to purchase quality tracks or even support me in any manner with donations or whatever. I know payware is a topic few want to discuss yet it exist in about every type of sim out there, planes to golf. Basically what I am saying is I am willing to work for sim racers if they are willing to support me. I wouldn't be looking to get rich of it by no means, just security so I can devote that time to the work necessary to create with the quality desired. Prices would be as cheap as reasonable, more sales would mean lower prices overall and possibly free tracks along the way and some funds I'd like to put away to perhaps put to a sim racing project I've wanted to do for years that I still hope to do someday. Why not mod? Basic reason is, everyone needs to support their future, I can't devote full work days to a hobby, and the time it would take to build quality tracks in free time equates to very few tracks getting done in the long term, it could take a year or more for each track not to mention all time spent of my free time toward this is time I can't devote to other projects that also don't bring income, like artwork or my first novel I'm writing, etc. I know this is strange and sudden to post here, but I've been talking with someone recently about it and just reading the post in this thread tells me people want great tracks and for RF2 to supported well into the future like RF1 was.
What will stop people just sharing them ? Your tracks from Simraceway are already ripped to rFactor and rFactor2. ( I detest rips ) All sims are much the same now because of this, barely any have unique tracks. Idea 1: The community needs a proper Co-Op and Charter and a few thousand paid up members. Idea 2: Do something unique, Dundrod or Isle of Man and don't release any info or WIP threads. When finished do a promo video and have pre-order only for a limited run, delivery when sold out, that way you get your money before the thieves do.
Gday old mate, I remember who you are lol ... been a very long time since I have seen you active around the community but It is good to see that you are still around and I wish you luck with your goals here, I for one am certainly interested in seeing how this goes for you, you got my support but champ I am curious however if you have considered also putting your tracks into other sims eg. Assetto Corsa?
I'll just post my response from the other thread here as well: If there is quality, I will throw my money at it. No doubt. I had no problems spending a little money on the T5 and Endurance mods from URD. It's pure quality, and it makes rF2 an even better package. Feels' tracks I would gladly have paid for, had he wished. And if you start making quality scratch built tracks for rF2 I'm for one will happily pay a little extra. You really seem to know your way around track building, and this is just what we need right now. I really hope a lot of people will back you up. I myself have been composing and recording my own music and songs for 6 years now. A creative and extremely time consuming process, much like modding. I've spent so much time on it, so much energy, like you wouldn't believe. Never have I received a dime for it, even though many people have enjoyed it (do I sound bitter??). In other words, I know where you're coming from, talking about payware. I sure hope you'll concentrate on this sim. Just a wish from me.
If you produce something worth buying, people will be happy to pay for it. And if you are good enough you may get a job - feels3 got hired by SimBin, Tuttle was hired by ISI
Well to answer your question, I won't be able to stop people from ripping them. Everyone's stuff gets ripped at some point, Reiza, Simbin, SMS, codemasters, whoever. I can only do my part to prevent it and the community do their parts to discourage it which they often do. If enough people support me then the rips won't be enough prevent me from continuing so it won't really matter.
That is kind of the thing, I thought I would be hired by now, I mean I created 14 tracks and have been doing it for 9 years, how many people can claim that? Doesn't matter though, freelance work is great when I get it and if this were to pan out it is more rewarding working in more direct relation to sim racers than making things behind the wall of a company.
Can't say I remember your name off hand, I may only know you by a call name you use to have. Seeing as how you are from the sydney area I figure I may know you from my very earliest days perhaps when I use to hang out with the guys from orsm. Also surprising to see how many Aussies have replied in my thread, funny how some of my earliest friends in sim racing and first supporters here are from the same region. As for other sims, I'm a fan of Assetto Corsa, right now I am waiting it out till at least version 1.0. I may support it as well, hard to say at this point, if I did support it I may work out something so its easy for people to get a version of tracks for both sims. I've been a long time supporter of ISI, but I can't deny my interest in Assetto Corsa so we will just have to see how things go in the future on that. I'm happy to see encouraging replies so far, so another question would be what would you guys want to see? Personally I've thought about a number of options, I'd like to create a new version of Autobahn Country Club but doubt many know about that track but its a nice venue and would be a good early track to do, not overly complicated. I've seen Oulton Park requested a lot and it is a track that I find interesting and hasn't been done much, I like classic tracks as well like Dundrod, classic Mexico, Watkins Glen or Riverside. Then there are classic fantasy tracks like perhaps a total remake of Machwerk?
Chalk me up as another who is happy to pay for quality. As for a circuit, Oulton Park is certainly one I'd love to see, as Lydden Hill and Sugo (Japan). That being said, it may be best to poll the forum first, as you don't want to waste time with Lydden Hill if I'm the only one who'd pay for it.
BTW, a recent result for tracks wanted in Asseto Corsa: 1st place (25%) Nordschleife 2nd place (10%) Le Mans Joint 3rd place (8%) Bathurst, Suzuka, Laguna Seca -We already have the Nordschleife in a pretty good, yet unfinished state. Will people be willing to pay for a finished version if they've already got a 80% complete one? I'm not so sure. -Le Mans is coming along nicely too and looks great -I believe someone is working on Laguna Seca and I've seen at least 3 Suzuka conversions (from poor to average), all 'illegal' though. I've not seen Bathurst. Oulton Park was not on the AC poll, but it's very popular on these boards. So, it seems the Oulton, Bathurst or Suzuka maybe the best tracks to aim for. However, one thing to consider is that both Oulton and Suzuka have three layouts, which would give a greater sense of value to the purchase.
Sorry, but Pleclair Nurb isn't good at all! I appreciated what he has done and the passion that he had put in that project, but the overall quality of that track is modest!
Combine with other modders. Do for instance BTCC 2015/2016 with all new scratch tracks, championship, rubber, setups, community skins, weather, server json.
Autobahn was one of my favorite tracks in rFactor. I'd definitely throw some money out there but probably not more than $5 - $10 a track. I'd also be more likely to buy club circuits than the famous tracks that have already been in many racing games.
I'm always happy to pay for mod content provided the quality is high and the price is fair. This sim is sorely lacking in quality circuits so anyone looking to bring a few more to the scene will get my support. My personal preference is modern content. Tracks from popular series like the BTCC, WTCC, DTM, Blancpain GT and ADAC GT would be my preference.
Welcome over Cyrus, I also worked for SRW and was involved in the testing of some of your circuits before they went to release. Now on to the topic at hand, Tracks and Payware. There certainly is a market for them as there is plenty of us out there who are willing to pay for quality built content but you will also face the wrath of those who simply oppose it (because they want everything for free). Sure free's nice but free does not pay the bills. A good example currently of how payware can work is the URD team and the EGT5 GT Cars mod which has a great following. I think the key is planning, setting out what your going to do before even pulling the first poly and setting the price, number of sales required for it to work and then a timeline. Also one of the most important aspects to this line is the communication with the customers, keeping them in the loop as much as possible will drive interest and sales up. Please feel free to drop me a pm if you want to have a chat as i've recently been chatting to Stu (madcowie) about some track related stuff and im sure if a few of us banged heads together we could all help each other out to drive forward a plan. Best, Rob
I would much rather pay for a mod than have to build it myself, which is what I have had to resort to due to the lack of rally content in rF2 (other than the amazing Route 666, of course). Machwerk is currently on my list for development but I would strongly prefer that someone else do it or any of the other tracks on my list because I would much rather be driving. Machwerk is also an incredibly popular track so buyer volume would be guaranteed, especially for quality work like yours. Crimson Road is another very popular track on my list worth looking at. So yeah, if something that I want is never going to happen or is going to take years or hundreds of hours of my effort then why not chip in a beer for someone who is ten times more efficient than I so everyone wins?
for quality tracks ( recreations of real world -as I don't use or like fantasy tracks ) you have my full support, & a donation ! fractor 2 has a great selection of top quality sim cars, but tracks still lacking in qty good luck & keep is updated of your plans (I keep out of politics when it comes to modding/tracks etc )
