Is there any word on clutch physics?

I'm just curious, after the community support of the petition to include a proper clutch in the game, if there's any plans by ISI to do this or a timeline? Tim Wheatley said in that thread they were going to do it but then we never heard about it after.

Is this on the back burner, impossible to do with this game engine, on a to-do list?

 

Actually he never said they were going to do it, he simply said they had "not said they wouldn't eventually implement it, but that it was not a priority right now" (or something to that effect) - it was such a classic blow-off that I just took it to mean that it will never happen and am hoping that the community will fill in the gap one of these days...

 

You know ISI don't do timelines, if Tim said they were going to do it safe to assume the game engine will support it and it will be done...I'd go with option three, on the to do list

 

I was chatting with a friend of mine and he was talking about pCARS and how they are planning on implementing a proper simulation of the transmission- including the clutch and h-shifter support. That may be enough to convince me to go the other side one day.

 

or you could just man up and race both

 

I have pCars, looks good but a long way to go to feel anywhere as good as rF2, for me there are no sides, just sims.

 

Or they could finally implement a proper clutch model after developping the engine for 8years

 

Or they could finally implement a proper off road model after developping the engine for 8years
Or they could finally implement a proper sound engine model after developping the engine for 8years
Or they could finally implement a proper damage model after developping the engine for 8years
Or they could finally implement a proper <INSERT HERE> model after developping the engine for 8years

Face facts people, everyone wants different things first and only ISI knows when and what is coming. Unfortunatley not one single sim will have everything that person desires so that person is left with a choice; race one and none of the others, or man up and race them all!

 

Things like clutch physics aren't reliant on any particular aspects of the game engine. A lot of graphics stuff is limited by (or has to adhere to) how the engine is designed, and the tyre model would influence what's possible, or feasible, with the tyres as far as parameters and performance goes. Anything else, especially physics related, is really just a matter of writing the code.

I don't think we've had any further word on the clutch, but if you look at the progress made in other areas I think it would be unwise to think they won't eventually get to it and make it pretty comprehensive. Look at the turbo code - lots of people were wanting it in rF1, rF2 came out and people were likely disappointed it still wasn't there, then one day *boom* there's enough stuff in there to leave most people saying "wtf does all that do??? I just wanted a simple turbo..."

 

That may be enough to convince me not to take your posts seriously, threatening not to play a sim is simply childs talk.

 

I can understand how this would have been a low priority in the earlier stages. As time goes by, and more and more people are using wheel/pedal combos with a clutch pedal, I hope it is getting towards the top of the list .

 

Is there such a thing as simple turbo! I hope that *boom* one day we have proper clutch in the sim. I wonder if even someone isn't working on a grinding tranny mod for rF2 like the one in rF1? In a league you could make a gentleman's agreement to all use it, otherwise it'd be useless online, but it'd be something.

 

Tim said they're going to do it. I'm paraphrasing but He also commented that he didn't figure most people would really use it very long once they got it because of how hard it would make the game. That means it would be pretty far down the list of things to do since it's not something they think many people will want.

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...n-in-rFactor-2?p=129663&viewfull=1#post129663

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...n-in-rFactor-2?p=129845&viewfull=1#post129845

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...n-in-rFactor-2?p=129873&viewfull=1#post129873

It would definitely be nice to know if they had started it though.

 

There are some simmers, including me, that prefer to drive each car as it was intended. Considering rF2 attention to detail and realism, I can't imagine this not being an option. Driving the Brabham without the clutch and paddle shifting is lame city

 

No one is preventing you from using the clutch anyhow... you just won't be missing gears.

I can understand ISI to implement this toward the end, it's not needed atm, giving the time it will probably take to implement properly.

But any way they are going to do it, there will be people complaining... Too hard or not realistic enough...

The petition thread about this is ridiculous imo, and shows a great deal about this so called community.

 

I drive what ever car however I am able to in real life, sometimes I use the clutch.. sometimes I don't. I only wish the repercussions were realistic. There isn't a car in this sim that can't be shifted without a clutch. I can shift every car I own, and have ever owned. (up and down ) without a clutch.

 

I agree on both perspectives.

But why forever argue every sim

Just make 2 versions of the sim.

Wouldn't that mean you could have altered engine.

One minimum specs, recognized wheel, shifter and clutch, so to drive a BT20 you would need a gated shifter alternatively paddles to drive those type cars.

Remove aids or other unrealistic type things which will suit the " not realistic enough" people and I.

You could dumb down this current version a little more for the " Too Hard " people.

So each version would not have a crowd saying it is " ...too hard or too easy " would it.......... unless they were trolls.


lopl


OT:
Load cell/sprung clutch pedal and engine to simulate the effects would be nice in rF3.

 

Having a proper clutch simulation and missing gears etc would be a great thing to have imo. Now it could be I'm just a clompy foot numpty, but my only issue with it is that I have a G25 and the pedals aren't positioned right for heel and toe downshifting. As in stomp on the brakes where your foot is way deeper than the throttle, and you have to squish your foot into the side of the throttle pedal really uncomfortably.
But hey, I would just not run on servers that are enforcing the full clutch usage.

 

CARBURETOR SIMULATION.. Starter simulation and clutch simulation.. This is a CAR simulator isn't it? Not just a tire model demo... Everything around the driving experience should be proper with equal importance.

 

I find this thread (and it’s previous copies) interesting from a technical standpoint. People are asking for a realistic clutch simulation, but what exactly does that mean?

Lets start with an easy example, a modern F1 with a sequential gearbox and a clutch that is actuated automatically for each gearshift. In this case, the clutch simulation would simply consist of a map of torque against clutch pedal position. An additional slip map to model clutch engagement would complete the simulation. The driver experience would require that the clutch pedal (or paddle) is required to be used simply when going from Neutral to 1st gear. Assuming the user has paddles to change gears (and to select 1st gear), the sim only has to ensure that the clutch is disengaged (clutch pedal/paddle pressed) to allow the shift from Neutral to 1st gear. If the clutch is not disengaged then the shift can be rejected. For all other shifts the clutch is operated automatically so no shifts will be rejected. The modelling required for this clutch example is trivial however adds only a little immersion to the overall sim, so I expect that it would be fully modelled and implemented at some point.

Lets start with a more real world example, a modern road car or even an old formula car with a H pattern gearbox and a manual hydraulic clutch. In this case there is no electronic assistance with either the clutch or the gear change operation. This is where things get interesting and therefore difficult. In this real world example the clutch is mechanically linked to the gear change. This may seem incorrect at first, but here is an example you can try yourself. In a manual road car, drive down a road in any gear (let’s say 3rd gear) with half throttle at a stead speed. Now try to select 4th gear without lifting off the throttle or pressing the clutch. Impossible. This is because the torque loading on the gearbox prevents 3rd from being released. Now try to do this in any sim. Easy. Assuming you now have a H pattern shifter attached to the sim, you can simply change from one gear to another under any combination of throttle load.

So perhaps the logical solution for the 2nd example is for the sim to simply disallow any shifts where the torque on the gearbox input shaft is a above a certain threshold, when the clutch pedal is depressed the torque on the input shaft is reduced so the shift is allowed. Easy. Except we are forgetting that in the real world the clutch and the gearshift are mechanically connected. Another example, this time we assume that the sim will reject any shifts where the clutch pedal is not pressed. So we are in the sim, driving hard and we go to shift gear from 3rd to 4th. We lift off the throttle, stomp on the clutch and change our H pattern shifter from 3rd to 4th. Except we messed up the clutch operation, we lifted off the clutch pedal before the gearbox had time to complete the shift so the sim correctly rejected the full shift and the the sim only allowed half of the shift to complete, so we are now in Neutral instead of 4th. This is where the real problem is. The H pattern shift is in the 4th gear position and the sim is in Neutral. An even worse case scenario is if we have tried to shift from 3rd to 4th and did not depress the clutch at all. In this case the sim would reject the shift completely, but the H pattern shift would now be in 4th gear. In both these examples a proper clutch simulation would have correctly prevented the full shift but results in the real world part of the sim (the H pattern shifter) being out of sync with the simulation. Now how would you expect the sim to handle the situation where the H pattern shifter is in the 4th gear position and the sim is in 3rd gear. How would you expect to shift from 3rd to 4th in this state?

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now and I can only conclude that a proper realistic clutch simulation is impossible for users with a H pattern shifter unless the shifter has some sort of electrical servo to allow the sim to set the position. I’m not aware that these exist, so conclude that clutch simulation in this case while possible in a fully automated sim environment is not possible in a sim environment where there is physical user input. Of course I could have missed the whole point here and perhaps people are after some other simulation involving the clutch that i have not considered. Thoughts are always appreciated.