[494] Confused with creating vmods [file names]

Whenever I created a vmod and wanting to add files like sound or talent to it, I sometimes did not know which file to select.
For example the sound files for Spark and EVE are called FVA and DFV.

What I did to make sure I got the right ones I opened the Mod Manager, clicked the mod and checked info in the right-bottom-window. it would list all related files.
Great success!

Now with build 494 (or even 382? I dunno) the info has been replaced with .Mas file descriptions so how do I know what to select?

And this is from ISI content. I can only imagine what 3rd party mods will do in the future? And with novice admins as well?

So, am I being daft and missing something or....?
I don't mind the names themselves per se but I do mind when I can't double-check whats what.



ps: dear ISI please add a 'uninstall all-vmods' option

 

see this post I made in July 2012:
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...age-names-relating-to-the-Mod-name?highlight=

Gjon even kindly replied, certainly an area that (still) needs addressing and you would hope fairly soon before there is a mass onslaught of Mods with randomly named files for Vmod usage!

still....at least I have the vision of forethought

 

Have you tried just not adding the sound/talent files in the vmod. I never have. If people have the right track and car, they should also already have the talent etc. Assuming you're using default files of course.

 

yes, i don't think anything but the track or car are needed. I created my own vmod like this.

 

Only MutiCmps list the individual components in the bottom right. I just checked on 494 and it still lists this info for MultiCmps.

And for the other posts in this thread. You don't absolutely have to include the sounds and talent but if you don't then GetMod will only download the vehicle and then you get people joining your server complaining that the cars don't have sounds. If the people install the car manually using a MultiCmp then they will already have the sounds and be fine. But do you really want to force your users to manually install stuff and not make use of GetMod the way it was intended? It isn't that hard to include the sounds and talent so why not?

What would be really nice is if there was a dedicated vmod tool that only listed MutiCmps and automatically included all the individual components needed so your not forced to figure out what components are needed by hand.

 

I also never had talent or sound files in vmod. But i agree that some need it. So Denstjro has a point there. Some mods have not-so-understandable names.
Dont want to get too much into this cause this would open a bigger discussion that would end in all the instalation mode rf2 has. I dont like it and its not easy for average John Doe. Even RF1 was simpler not only in this but in many things.
Its what we have. Best way is taking it as it is and dont make too much noise here cause some people often get angry on not-so-rf2-friendly-posts even if they are here to help things get better.

 

I agree, the naming is really bad... mostly ISI's naming. You would think that ISI would at least try to set an example for "best practices". If modders would name things more consistently it wouldn't be so bad. Denstjiro's technique of verifying the list by highlighting the MultiCmp in the ModMgr seems to be the easiest way to get an accurate list right now.

 

What I really dont understand is why talent and sound files are not included within the vehicle component. This makes necessary the use of multicomponents which is not a necessary entity by itself since it is never referenced by a vmod. However, not being anything really, they can get corrupted when uninstalling any update for any of its components. I tipycally update isi components for our championships and it can get tricky to uninstall them later.

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Thats just changed for the recent build for Talent files, they can be included in the Vehicle component and therefore the Talent Folder will eventually become obsolete (once all the mods are updated).

 

50% of the job done then

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I believe that Sound files are being seperated from components so people can use their own sounds without causing mismatches online, pretty sure I read it somewhere on this forum but dont quote me on it!

 

Also who really wants to download the sound all over again just because of a 10kb HDV file change? People have to remember that the system is heavily designed around GetMod. If you change the HDV a little, you repack the vehicle cmp and the when people join the server the next time they have a 25mb download rather than a 100mb download. Personally I think they should but it up even more and put the physics/tires in their own component and teams/skins in another.

 

Like Noel said, when on auto-d/l people wont have sounds.
Also the talent is AI right? people use AI on their servers.

I came across this last night when on Skype with another league admin, showing him how-to and how-not-to. And I could not explain to him that if something was unclear then he needs to....because he can't (anymore)
We don't even allow downloads on our server atm so its not a problem for us per se (we want to avoid too many pickup racers) but who knows what we will do in the future? and like I said, what about novice admins/hosts or those whom want to do a quickie.

It would be better indeed if things that don't need to be there, are not there. UI, Showroom, Nations....and in the future maybe even sounds. I've been advocating this before, rf2 needs simplicity for users and admins. if not possible, fine, but if possible, go for it. we all benefit.

or,

And maybe even a way to force modders (or force their files) to properly name stuff. for example I have files named IFS3 as vehicle and sound/talents. No idea what it is tbh. probably because I hardly used that mod so I forgot but in 2 years our rf2 will be filled with elite content (hopefully!) and I am really not looking forward to have to figure out what's what or tell a new admin to 'just deal with it'


Thx for the replies chaps. Get cracking ISI, you got 24H.

 

If I am not wrong the sound files are being referenced from the vehicle component so unless you update the component you cannot change sounds. I might be wrong though

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I dont agree. Not everybody is using your system and I prefer complete components. I post the links for the components and people download install and join the server. It is simple.

Besides I dont get what you mean about hdv. If you don't have the referenced sounds it will not work. Am I missing something?

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GetMod isn't just my service. Anyone could host their own service and I suspect ISI will make their system public and have an automated registration system at some point. They had a game plan when designing the system. Rather than trying to hack around it you might as well learn how to make proper use of it. It reminds me of all the problems people have with UAC. Microsoft has had guidelines in place since Windows 98 on where stuff should be written so admin rights wouldn't be needed. Users and devs ignored this for all these years storing reg entries in HKLM and files all over the place. Now when MS enables UAC and locks admin accounts down people go into a panic. If people didn't try to reject evolution things would be much smoother.

I really don't see how forcing your users to download a large MultiCmp and then manually installing is more simple than joining the server and having everything automatically download and install. Really it's just admins not being interested in learning how GetMod was intended to work. Sure not everyone uses my service but there are about 100 users registered. I am sure as more and more leagues start to use rf2 the more it will get used compared to random users just wanting to host a random server for pickups.

My suggestion of giving us the ability to bust up rfmcmps even more wouldn't make your method any harder. You would still be able to make large MultiCmps. So I don't see why you have to disagree with my suggestion anyways.

 

What I am saying is you have the physics, models and teams in one rfcmp and the sounds in another and the talent in another and you build one big MultiCmp that includes all three rfcmps. On your server you reference all three rfcmp's in a vmod and then people have two options. A: they can download one big MultiCmp and install it by hand. B: They can simply join the server and all three rfcmp's download and install automatically.

Later if you have to make a physics change to the HDV. You only need to update one of the three rfcmp files. Once you are done you can build another big MultiCmp and your stubborn users can download the new 200MB MultiCmp and your other users can simply rejoin the server and get just the one 40MB rfcmp file that changed.

The problem right now is the physics are really small and personally should have their own component type. Currently the physics go in the vehicle cmp along with the models and teams which are not small. If they busted them up then people could join the server and only get a 1MB download compared to a 40MB download of the physics, models and teams. This would make life better for those with properly hosted servers and for those that love big MultiCmps wouldn't be impacted. They could still continue doing the same thing.

The goal for the whole packaging system and GetMod was to make life easy for end users and new users. I guess ISI over estimated admins willingness to learn how it works and make use of it so their users get a better experience. I look at it as a way to make your league better than the others. In rF1 there were some leagues that were run like crap with download links all over the place and users bitching about mismatches and questioning which version of a track they needed. Then you have better leagues with dedicated installers for the tracks and some leagues that made use of SimSyncPro and no confusion.

To each their own I guess.

 

I guess it means that each part of a mod could be on a different version. The models may be 1.0 but the physics may need tweaking and end up on 1.2 and if packaged separate they could be downloaded whenever there is a tweak.

Tracks just have 1 part is that right?

 

Exactly

 

Using multicomponents for how we tipycally run our server is not functional. We usually use modified ISI content. When I tried putting updates to components into the multicmp they would just not be installed. I posted about this a long ago. I'll try to find it.

We found out that only mods containing the updating component would work (until these last mogr.exe if you have read my bug report about now not working properly)
When I say I prefer complete components I don't mean that people will have to download everything everytime we update something (track or vehicle) We usually include the update in the vmod which can be downloaded with get mod or in our webpage.

I am not saying that automatic component downloading isn't nice. However, not until most of the components are within the systen we can avoid links. Besides we are providing high speed downloads because we put content in our own server. We do not want to depend on download availability and speed of somewhere else or on the good will of modders when packing components.

I said that I see no reason why vehicles do not include sounds and talent. It makes necessary a multicomponent and as you said it happens that the names make it difficult to see the linkage between them.

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