I am close to changing my mind about conversions...

@Spaksis

I specifically said I wasn't purposely attacking you personally in any way, if you want to still feel offended, that is too bad.

What you are suggesting I said, 'trying to say a program needing a plugin to import a gmt being a good solution', I actually never did. There should be no single reason to import gmt's into max, since if you're doing a proper job the source will be in 3dsmax or your own 3d software. That is what I'm saying, and that is my opinion, no need to twist that around. The gMotor tools do exactly what they should as in it is a very complete package. Everything it outputs can be used directly ingame. If someone wants to take that output and put it back into other software, working in reverse, that is his/her problem. It's not ISI's job to fix problems created by others I reckon.

Sure if there was the 'uber track tool eutopia' that would be awesome. However, as you know a track needs not only roads and patches of grass but actual assets to fill it up. Are you going to model those in that tool? And render stuff as well? Maybe do something with animation even? Before you know it, that software has become that which you found too generic or cumbersome and yet another different take on popular 3d software. I come from a background of game development and track building, guess what software is used. We have to do the math on how much time and money something costs do develop, while for maybe a 10th of the budget amount it can be acquired. Even worse, I heard a story a while back of company developing something for 2 years, ending up buying something off the shelf after all. Try explaining that to the boss without blushing.

Lazy people are usually the most efficient, heard say that more than once

 

Because at heart Le Mans is nothing but a conversion with some comparatively minor touch ups.

If building tracks to the standard of Tuttle or Feels3 is the only way to not have your immense work called crap I do not want to be part of this community anymore. It's despicably disrespectful.

 

You did pick on the nuances throughout the topic though, right? Especially this one:

As I recall, this was all directed to lazy conversions..

 

And who's to tell what is a "good" source material, or a "good" conversion? Who are the lazy ones? I've had my work be called crap or be demanded to spend more time on tracks to make them not-quite-so-crap.

There's people working their ass off for us, and we allow people to piss on them to boot. No person deserves to have their demonstrable work called crap. Let alone a person who invested their valuable time, and if it's just five hours, to provide something for others.

That is not okay. Ever.

There is no nuance here.

I feel closer to any modder who converted a horrible rF1 track to make it look crap in rF2 than anyone, modder or just blabbermouth, who thinks they can tell people to not bother or even stop creating something.

 

I hope you are not being serious Ethone because if you (we) give up on things because of some random and ill-informed comments then we might as well all give up.
3 or 4 guys in a thread whining about something and not offering any solutions or otherwise, should be disregarded by default.

Just remember that if 3 people are on a flaming spree, 300 people are enjoying the work you guys put out there.
make that 6 people flaming and you got 600 peeps liking your work. 12 peeps, u gots 1200 peeps.

I'm not entirely sure if that is correct science on my part but you get the picture I hope

 

I personally think this discussion is heading in a very strange and unhealthy direction. The original poster was talking about conversions where the work is either very roughly done (to put it politely) or where the community is left totally in the dark if this is wip, if something more is planned or whatever. Every true effort is appreciated, and not everything has to be of feels3 standard to be a great drive. It is always a big learning process. What we certainly don't need is to piss off people from modding or even provoke reactions like from ethone, who has proven more than once that he really knows what he is doing.....
I certainly promote the original idea of making clear what the future plans of a conversion/project are to reduce unwanted reactions.

 

Conversions of conversions is usually a good indication of not so great source material...

I saw a guy slagging off the new shots of Feels3's track even, there is always somebody who isn't happy with stuff they get for free. You can either take that personal, or don't.

 

The OP might have been correct, if he can show us a track maker whom added a readme to his track stating 'I did it for the lulz' or 'I purposely didn't finish it' or 'I only make bad stuff to annoy people'
Maybe then you got a reason to bitch about their work.

Thing is, we don't know, why, how, when. the reasons are unclear and it seems to me OP assumed it was laziness whilst there can be a whole range of other reasons.

It has little effect on people making 'bad' conversions, they will be doing it anyways, but threads like this do have effects in other areas.
So the direction of the thread is not surprising at al imo.

 

Not a bad idea denstjiro,

well if the op. can do better please feel free.there nothing stopping you from creating your masterpiece's. I knew it wouldn't be long before the moaners show up.

 

I thought I was clear on this:

It is not okay to call anyone or their work crap when they provided it for the benefit of us all. Ever.

I can take the odd person calling my work crap, but that does not make it okay. And it sure as hell does not make it okay to make such statements about even broader segments of modding work, like made in this thread. Let alone pronouncing a policy or general rule on which kind of modding work is okay and which is not.

 

This thread has gone loopy, is there a full moon coming?

The OP totally has a point about some really crap conversions (don't know if some of those converters are in this thread, but i know ethone is not one of them, and i think almost everyone would agree with this, his work is excellent).

There are good modders, there are some who don't even deserve the name. It's not hard to see who's who most of the time.

To me, lazy 24 hour track converters are only one step up from those who rip others work, i wish they'd all just stop and go away. Those who put just a little effort into their work and improve bit by bit, i have nothing but respect for.

 

I think you find if it was left to isi , you would probably only have a few tracks. not the large content now available. I do both scratch and converters for other games : gtr2,gtl.race07,rf1 but what really get my goat up is people come here complaining about content, and not one of them steps up and try to do anything about it or make one. they expected half a dozen modders to fullfill there requests of tracks.download them without a thanks ,and probably submit the I WANT THIS TRACK NOW THREAD and help the community by assistant the modders.instead of Flapping the mouths about it.
although even isi are getting now about Silverstone, WHEN WHEN WHEN.

ANSWER: WHEN THE MODDERS ARE FINISHED.

 

If a person thinks the work is crap, fine, let that guy have his opinion. The way it is voiced however usually can be done without, I do agree on that.

The OP was merely suggesting a policy or general rule, but even that has seemingly offended people. I don't know what that means, but I hope the people who are offended don't get that this exact request is only for the benefit of everybody, or so it seems.

@Banger
Most people behave like that when stuff is handed out for free unfortunately.

 

This thread makes me never want to release tracks to the public. I think I'll just keep my sh!tty rF1 to rF2 updates to myself and close friends. Way to inspire modders!

 

People is free to release all they want, and other people is free to rate, somtimes people is too rude talking about some conversions... but is not valid to name some conversions "work". If something has some kind of work, nice, congratulations and thanks. But most conversions is being released has not any kind of work, most of us can do that kind of conversions following some indications with no knowledge.

I are not going to say that coversions are crap, I never said that, but I would say... "If you're only going to do that and you are not going to continue with your 'work' and do not plan to grow as a modder, let 'proffesionals' do all they know". Some conversions scary me, and there are some even worse than rFactor 1... if that serve as learning I'm happy, but most of them do not serve for that, are four indications they follow, and then leave, because most of these authors do not seem interested in spending the time necessary (which is not little) learning 3D modding. And from what I've seen several people leave the conversions... they easily convert tracks, but when they see the work necessary to go a step ahead they leave, and obviously do not release conversions because they are of poor quality as some of released in this forum.

PD: true modders (people with experience or people is really learning and getting experience) must not be offended with all said in this thread despite quality of their tracks. I think people who only "throw" fast conversions aren't modders. I can do a fast conversion and I'm no going to became a modder. I will be a modder if I try to grow as It, I try to learn improve tracks...


---> ethone, mandeglor, SPASKIS, are some of with my criteria are modders, not feels3 quality (he is a beast), but they spend some time converting tracks and learning track by track and they "have future".

 

In my case, my first conversion was Imola 2006, helped me for initiation of conversions (not in 3D Max). Then, I began a tactic of making some basic circuits, initially, to have some variety, with the intention of finalizing them later, step by step.

Now my skills have improved, with practice and time, and I will do Imola 2006 2.0, Monza 2.0 (after Bahrain and will be public) and some others.

Initially I shared everything, but then some people start to share my conversions in this forum without my approval, for known reasons, and now I don't share more "illegal" conversions. For that reason, maybe you think that I have abandoned conversions, but in reality that is not correct. For example, this is the current state of Melbourne, v0.68:





Still far from being finished, but much better than the 0.55 version.

Regards.

 

The main reason why I started creating circuits is because I like driving on them. . For me therefore, the most important is the feeling of the track. Fortunately my tracks have no problem with realroad since i can control the road mesh perfectly with btb. I dont say I dont pay attention to graphics but rf1 possibilities where quite limited and I have had no time to learn about rf2 new possibilities. I have always done it in my free time which is much less than when I started doing it and I wasn't a father of two kids as I am now. I can say that the learning method is not easy. Now rf2 is out with better graphical capabilities. What does ISI release? Track technology? Where is a track modding and a vehicle modding real guide? Where is a gmt editor?

Creating tracks take time and when you do so you dont have much time to learn. I will probably learn some 3dsmax in the future but hopefully people as dave noonan will make our lives a little bit easier with more powerful versions of 3d simed. Sorry for saying my opinion mr wgeuze but it is as respectable as yours no matter the quality of our tracks.

Until that happens we wil keep on with the crap.

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+1

 

Your work is wonderful Mcnolo. As I told vicent sollana, I think the spanish track modders should try to organize somehow to learn from each other and form a great modding community.

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well since BTB can now be imported into a unity full 3D game engine, it possibles are now, endless