[REL] Zandvoort 2017 is now available!

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    No idea why they don't finish it but the stuff outside the trackside barriers are trival to me
    I don't really look at buildings etc whilst driving perhaps be nice for replays though

    It's still an ultra high quality track to drive lots of little cambers and changes in track -very noticeable when trying to get a fast lap
    In spite of people's disbelief in laser scanned tracks ( & the point cloud being utilised correctly ) they can not be beaten

    Agreed their weather stuff is pretty much non existent
     
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  2. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    well there's two reasons for me:

    1) A track would be pretty empty and honestly ghastly if it didn't have anything outside of the barriers, I can't imagine how poor the immersion would be if everything stopped at the barriers.

    2) Real life drivers and myself included (as a sim driver) sometimes use Trees, Port-A-Loos, Grandstands, Telegraph Poles etc etc as braking markers, so they're not only important to the look of the track but also to the actual driving experience.
     
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  3. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Then it might be important to note for you that Zandvoort for rF2 was build using a LIDAR pointcloud. That a track is in beta doesn't mean that it isn't accurate in terms of the track surface. Also don't confuse your experience on Zandvoort in iRacing with the track experience in rF2, because the track was resurfaced recently where the iRacing version is several years old.
     
  4. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    We are not saying there should be nothing outside of the tarmac,it's just the sheer complexity of the surrounding of that track,it makes Monaco look like a sparce wilderness,all we are saying is,we wish they would release a simplified version,with less buildings etc
     
  5. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Actually yes good to have some stuff there , long beach example vid above -everything is there but as a point cloud as the scanner detected it (it's just clusters of dots),
    I guess I mean it's fine if it's very simplified textures

    I like all the complexity in the track
     
  6. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    source?
     
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  7. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    So essentially your asking for less objects on Off/Low Track Detail then, understood.
     
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  8. ceecee

    ceecee Registered

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  9. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    thx
    So Richard Hessel works for S397 and responds to questions at Racedepartment?
    Why does S397 not advertise Zandvoort as a laser scanned track then?
    (maybe Richard Hessels name on this forum is not Richard Hessel?)

    It may all make sense and Im sorry for questioning so much but these questions still exist.
     
  10. ceecee

    ceecee Registered

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    Why would someone have to work for S397 ?
    In Holland there are loads of private contracters (LIDAR scanners maybe ?).
    Whatever, I think that a good job has been done on the track so far and I do like it.
    When I lived in Holland I visited Zandvoort on many occasions and the graphic surroundings in the track gives good immersion.
     
  11. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Reading his post at RD, leaves no open question for me. And yes, his name is @Richard Hessels , on that forum, too.

    And why shouldn`t work a well known track artist not for s397? Cant get the logic behind your question...
     
  12. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Laser scanning is mostly just marketing. NOLA for example isn't laser scanned but feels just as good if not better than this track. Also laser scanning of the surface doesn't mean the trackside objects are accurately represented.
     
  13. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    sorry about that
    but I still dont understand why s397 does not advertise it as THE FIRST OFFICIAL LASER SCANNED TRACK FOR RFACTOR2

    Roadmap Update May 2017:
    "For us this is a great opportunity to share the first preview of our new Zandvoort track, which will be coming to rFactor 2. We’ve included a few early screenshots which show our progress with the track and we are very pleased that we can also announce that we’ve obtained an official license for it."

    Roadmap Update July 2017:
    "Many of you saw our rendition of Zandvoort at the Max Verstappen days. Since then, we have optimised and further enhanced the track. Like the McLaren above, Zandvoort will be used in the World’s Fastest Gamer competition and will be released as a free addition. Check out some screens below!"

    no word of laser scanning
     
  14. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    The gaming public usually doesn't think of aerial lidar as "laser scanning" because the point cloud density is significantly lower than that achieved through driving a mobile laser scanning vehicle around a circuit (or using stationary on-site laser scanners).

    All of Holland is publically available as an aerial lidar scan... about 0.5 to 1.0 meter resolution between points as I recall, though it varies depending on the date of the scan. A mobile laser scanning vehicle, on the other hand, will produce a point cloud with 20x better resolution. Partly due to iRacing's marketing, gamers are thus not inclined to think of aerial lidar scans as being the same as "laser scanning", despite the fact that track artists will throw away the majority of points in the process of turning them into polygons such that aerial lidar resolution produces essentially the same end result.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  15. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    ah ok, thanks for explaining
    makes sense
     
  16. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    We got a BINGO here! People mostly don't have an understanding of laserscanning itself and most people will never understand that a pointcloud of that resolution can be just as accurate for a game that uses a track resolution as big as most sims do.
     
  17. ceecee

    ceecee Registered

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    I am a private contractor.
    I do work for my clients, I do not work for my clients.
    i.e. They pay me per project, they do not pay me a monthly salary (that would be nice). ;)
     
  18. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    laser scanned track surface then developers skill to fuse the virtual surface to match the point cloud creates a fantastic experience
    (stuff off the actual track is secondary / visual -although a lot of this is also part of the cloud )

    some tracks though like the Japanese tracks in iracing although laser scanned the surface is pretty smooth/lifeless -perhaps its the way they lay down the tarmac over there? although as they are lasered there's no questioning layout/corners/cambers/inclines/declines

    looking forward to rfactor2 releasing laser scanned tracks, initially as a "tech" track as in the long beach vid if they must release early (I actually tech tracks)
     
  19. David Wright

    David Wright Registered

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    You are assuming that you drive on the polygons in sims with laser scanned tracks.
     
  20. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I don't know about iRacing(*), but AC uses an invisible polygon mesh for theirs while displaying much coarser polygons for the player to visualize. The ISI-derived systems (AMS, R3E, pCARS) are going to use polygons because I don't think there's collision detection for points in the ISI engine.

    (*) It can assumed, however, that iRacing isn't going to use the full point density for their racing surface because there isn't enough bandwidth to stream that to the client.

    Edit: Technically, it doesn't matter whether the mesh is points or polygons because polygons are defined as 3 points. Therefore to calculate collisions, it is easier to consider the mesh because your tire has to penetrate plane defined by three points in order for a collision to be detected.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
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