YEBIS post-effects integrated into groundbreaking racing simulator rFactor2 as part of major graphic

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by F1 2004, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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  2. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Nothing new under the hood but worth a reading, thanks for it!
     
  3. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Does rF2 really got a complete new gfx engine?
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    I thought that but maybe Marcel was referring to the DX11 change perhaps?
     
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  5. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    Really glad for these Post-effects which have certainly given a lift to the graphics. It sounds like further improvements are coming too. One thing that could still be improved though is the lighting. If you look at those screenshots they are very dark and this has always been the case with with RF2. I would really like to see a exposure slider and a saturation slider in the new UI !
     
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  6. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    Dom on Discord just now:

    dom-Today at 10:37
    yes we are updating the lighting currently, its a big process:)
     
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  7. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I agree about the lighting, but Marcel did mention in his interview that he was going to improve the ambient/overall lighting so that's something to look forward to and shouldn't affect the performance.

    The depth of field has been excellently implemented in the replays, I love how the car is in the centre of the camera yet it's like the camera man can't focus on it. Looks realistic, especially for historical races.

    Wish there was some way of exporting directly to .mp4 (or similar) rather than use an external recorder though.
     
  8. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    This is great to hear :)
     
  9. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Registered

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    We did not have a DX11 engine before, so yes. Granted, we started out making the DX11 engine compatible with DX9 because we wanted to make sure existing content still works. Our intention from that moment on has been to keep improving the engine. Some of those things you've already seen (effects like DoF, fixing undercar shadows at night, and lots of little tweaks) and others we are still working on (improved damage, new lighting model, better rain effects).
     
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  10. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think considering that the shots are all done in low sun considtions the brightness is ok. What will help alot though are improved shaders for stuff like tarmac, because that def. is an area where the sim can improve and afaik there haven't been done too much with new shaders yet. I think with the new rain effects the provided a glimpse of new shaders and reading the interview I am glad to hear that everything is subject of a long term development plan. Also cool to read that there seems to be a plan to reach out to asian racing teams. Would be nice to fill some gaps like a 60s Honda F1 car or another GT500 to match up against the Nissan. One can only dream :)
     
  11. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    For sure new tarmac shaders could do wonders. I have to disagree about the brightness though - I think generally RF2 has always had a bit of a dull and dark appearence. This will always be a matter of personal preference I know... :)

    Speaking of personal preference... I wonder if it would be possible to make different PP filters like you can in AC? AC also uses YEBIS post-processing. That would be REALLY great IMO. :)
     
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  12. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Registered

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    Our goal going forward with the graphics engine is to add more consistency to the overall output. Not easy, especially given the amount of third party content that's out there. To achieve that we do not want end users to tweak things like post processing effects too much. As you know, we do offer some levels, and try to balance the trade-off between speed and beauty, but in general we try hard to provide settings for all effects that look good. If you've been around rFactor 2 for a while you might remember there was a time when you could provide your own "tone mapper" preferences for HDR. The end result of that was that one piece of content was tuned to tone mapper A, another to B, and if you ended up mixing both pieces the end result would never look good again. Those things are exactly what we're trying to avoid, hopefully coming up with a display that looks gorgeous for everybody.

    Probably not what you wanted to hear though. :)
     
  13. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    Yes I can see the challenge with the amount of 3rd party content for sure. I remember the HDR profiles yes and I agree that it wasnt always the case that they worked well on all content. But now that you mention 3rd party content your self, then I must say that some basic options for adjusting, things like saturation, brightness/exposure would be great. :)
     
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  14. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    ...and pls the option to switch it (PP) off completly.
     
  15. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    Those knobs are on your monitor and in your graphics driver settings ☺️
     
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  16. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    That doesnt mean that it wouldnt be nice to have in-game as well. Especially for VR users :)
     
  17. SPASKIS

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    IMO the problem rF2 has with lighting is that autoexposure seems not to be fine tuned. It seems to work quite well between day and night but cloudy sky seems not compensated.

    I don't know for sure what rF2 is trying to achieve when rendering. Maybe one who knows can explain this.
    Is it supposed to simulate a videocamera in manual mode with fixed aperture and shutter that shows the image as it is?
    Or is it supposed to simulate a videocamera in automatic mode where exposure is adapted to the overall lighting?

    IMO the approach should be different for monitors and VR. For monitors our eyes not only take into account how much light comes from them but ambient light as well.

    In VR, the only available light is coming from the screen. There is no ambient light. Dark scenes will grow pupils and brighter ones will close them.

    IMO the best track to test which is the most realistic and natural approach is Monaco. The difference in lighting when entering an exiting the tunnels and from driving highly shaded areas vs sunny areas is perfectly big for this task.

     
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  18. WiZPER

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    I can agree about the VR optionality, it can seem overly bright at times.
     
  19. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    I agree that no auto exposure is a bit problematic in cloudy conditions. But then on the other hand, the previous auto exposure that ISI used back a few years ago was so horrible it completely overexposed the environment when inside a dark cockpit.

    Regarding sliders, I don't think many games provide a saturation slider, I don't think this is good practice to include as it may lead to content makers adjusting their cars/tracks for wrong saturation in worst case. A basic monitor should be able to provide correct saturation by default, unless you use some wide gamut monitor, but almost all monitors on consumer market use sRGB color space. The only slider I could think of as useful would be gamma, as cheap monitors quite often come with wrong out-of-box gamma.
     
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  20. SPASKIS

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    Is this a confirmation of no autoexposure being applied?

    If no autoexposure at all was applied, driving at night would be quite impossible. Unless, for sure, some fake ambient light was introduced to compensate it.

    IMO the problem of autoexposure is to cleverly determine how to implement it. Most fail to emulate how the eye works.

    You could take many different approaches in order to determine the AE factor to be used each time.

    In order to properly judge AE, extreme conditions need to be tested with same settings.
     

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