WRC 4 came out, and made me wish for dirt physics.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Salajutsu, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. osella

    osella Registered

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    But of course even if these values are 100% correct that's only half realistic at best as I said, what is missing is actual simulation of a tyre digging INTO the surface which should be complex, something that doesn't happen on tarmac and hence doesn't have to be simulated in circuit sims, material being thrown off the track etc. those things would take so much time to do right I would honestly not expect ISI to care about dirt physics in the next few years, considering they want/need to do so many more important things first (finishing all rain aspects for example).
    SMS said there is a possilbility that pCars would have proper offroad physics as well but seeing as they still care more about graphics I find that even less likely than ISI.

    So RBR is all we have for the next decade I guess lol.. ( :( )
     
  2. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    If the F1 mod has 2.0 of CF and the track has 0.65 as you said, the real CF is 1.3, I don't understand what do you mean there.
     
  3. osella

    osella Registered

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    Tyre cf 1.3 AND track cf 0.65, total should be 1.3*0.65=0.845. Total of 1.3 is way too fast/not slippery enough.

    F1 slicks on tarmac is ~ 2.2*1.0 of track=2.2 total.
    F1 slicks on mud in rfactor is ~2.2*0.65=1.43 total, when it should be something like 0.5*0.65=0.325 because as we all know slicks shouldn't work at all in mud...

    edit: for start, huge step forward would be if the tyre file had different cf used for different surfaces like that:

    FIA WRC tarmac tyre:

    TarDryLatLong=(1.6,1.6) <--100% dry tarmac cf
    TarWetLatLong=(1.3,1.3) <--100% wet tarmac cf
    GravDryLatLong=(1.1,1.1) <--100% dry gravel cf
    GravWetLatLong=(1.0,1.0) <--100% wet gravel cf
    SnowLatLong=(0.7,0.7) <--snow cf (do we have "dry snow" lol?)
    IceLatLong=(0.4,0.4) <--ice cf

    Now if the track itself had gravel cf of 0.75, in dry this WRC tyre would have total cf 1.2*0.75=0.9, whereas currently rf, like all sims only differentiates between dry/wet, not tarmac/anythingelse.


    For super soft slick F1 tyre it could look like that:

    TarDryLatLong=(2.2,2.2) <--100% dry tarmac cf
    TarWetLatLong=(1.3,1.3) <--100% wet tarmac cf
    GravDryLatLong=(0.8,0.8) <--100% dry gravel cf
    GravWetLatLong=(0.5,0.5) <--100% wet gravel cf
    SnowLatLong=(0.3,0.3) <--snow cf (do we have "dry snow" lol?)
    IceLatLong=(0.1,0.1) <--ice cf

    -which would make the tyre useless on anything else than tarmac.

    Numbers purely from my head, very rough estimates which I didn't confirm but you get the idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2013
  4. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    Osella, i dont know if you are aware that in the TGM ISI pack have a BF Goodrich off road tires, just to know.
     
  5. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    BF Goodrich are very bad tires in real as well, even in dry on road cars. No chance against europion manufacturer. It can't be very usefull to simulate this crap, or someone is intrested to simulate bad tires. :)
     
  6. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    About wich crap are you talking about?
     
  7. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Just about a bad image of a tire and how it shouldn't be. No one of my customer would ever buy this crap and mount in on it's car. :)
     
  8. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    Oh, i dont know much about tires, i not knowing that the BF Goodrich are bad, i thought the opossite because the Bajas use them.

    Edit: anyway, it can be use, the TGM model for start.
     
  9. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Sure there are better ones for racing available but i know the street tires just as crap while i'm selling the most dunlop, michelin, pirelli, continental, hankook and such. It is just my experience with road cars and driver in germany, at least with my and regional customers.

    Yes it is a base to start with for simulating.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Presumably anyone wanting to simulate a car which uses them might find it useful. :)
     
  11. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Yes it wasn't meant as useless to simulate, more useless as a tire and therefore the simultion result. It might be possible, it lets your great sim car look like crap except soneone is intrested to replicate unwished car behaviour, which is all time the goal if racing and driving to eliminate bads and support the car dynamic with good tires matching to it's purpose. :)
     
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    The Skip Barber purposely uses those tires for the grip levels and handling they wanted to create. IMHO every tire has it's place. :)
     
  13. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    No wonder i don't understand the skippy and don't like the cornering performance of it :D
     
  14. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Ok osella, I got your point now.
     

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