WRC 4 came out, and made me wish for dirt physics.

But of course even if these values are 100% correct that's only half realistic at best as I said, what is missing is actual simulation of a tyre digging INTO the surface which should be complex, something that doesn't happen on tarmac and hence doesn't have to be simulated in circuit sims, material being thrown off the track etc. those things would take so much time to do right I would honestly not expect ISI to care about dirt physics in the next few years, considering they want/need to do so many more important things first (finishing all rain aspects for example).
SMS said there is a possilbility that pCars would have proper offroad physics as well but seeing as they still care more about graphics I find that even less likely than ISI.

So RBR is all we have for the next decade I guess lol.. ( :( )
 
osella said:
Dirt/gravel physics can be at least reasonably half-realistic in rf1 (and so in rf2 too).. I did a lot of testing of grip combinations and if the gravel surface has grip of ~0.65-0.80 (depends on what kind of surface you want to imitate) and resistance (important parameter) set to 1000-3000 and at the same time using gravel tyres, the handling feel pretty realistic. The big problem though is that neither rf1 or rf2 differentiates between tyre types so F1 slicks work perfectly when they shouldn't. But if you stick to tyres with coefficient of no higher than ~1.30-40 it makes sense (f1 tyres have coeff over 2.0 on tarmac while on gravel this should fall down well below 1.0 - and rfactor always keeps it over 2.0 nomatter what surface).
Click to expand...

If the F1 mod has 2.0 of CF and the track has 0.65 as you said, the real CF is 1.3, I don't understand what do you mean there.
 
Tyre cf 1.3 AND track cf 0.65, total should be 1.3*0.65=0.845. Total of 1.3 is way too fast/not slippery enough.

F1 slicks on tarmac is ~ 2.2*1.0 of track=2.2 total.
F1 slicks on mud in rfactor is ~2.2*0.65=1.43 total, when it should be something like 0.5*0.65=0.325 because as we all know slicks shouldn't work at all in mud...

edit: for start, huge step forward would be if the tyre file had different cf used for different surfaces like that:

FIA WRC tarmac tyre:

TarDryLatLong=(1.6,1.6) <--100% dry tarmac cf
TarWetLatLong=(1.3,1.3) <--100% wet tarmac cf
GravDryLatLong=(1.1,1.1) <--100% dry gravel cf
GravWetLatLong=(1.0,1.0) <--100% wet gravel cf
SnowLatLong=(0.7,0.7) <--snow cf (do we have "dry snow" lol?)
IceLatLong=(0.4,0.4) <--ice cf

Now if the track itself had gravel cf of 0.75, in dry this WRC tyre would have total cf 1.2*0.75=0.9, whereas currently rf, like all sims only differentiates between dry/wet, not tarmac/anythingelse.


For super soft slick F1 tyre it could look like that:

TarDryLatLong=(2.2,2.2) <--100% dry tarmac cf
TarWetLatLong=(1.3,1.3) <--100% wet tarmac cf
GravDryLatLong=(0.8,0.8) <--100% dry gravel cf
GravWetLatLong=(0.5,0.5) <--100% wet gravel cf
SnowLatLong=(0.3,0.3) <--snow cf (do we have "dry snow" lol?)
IceLatLong=(0.1,0.1) <--ice cf

-which would make the tyre useless on anything else than tarmac.

Numbers purely from my head, very rough estimates which I didn't confirm but you get the idea.
 
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Osella, i dont know if you are aware that in the TGM ISI pack have a BF Goodrich off road tires, just to know.
 
BF Goodrich are very bad tires in real as well, even in dry on road cars. No chance against europion manufacturer. It can't be very usefull to simulate this crap, or someone is intrested to simulate bad tires. :)
 
speed1 said:
BF Goodrich are very bad tires in real as well, even in dry on road cars. No chance against europion manufacturer. It can't be very usefull to simulate this crap, or someone is intrested to simulate bad tires. :)
Click to expand...

About wich crap are you talking about?
 
Just about a bad image of a tire and how it shouldn't be. No one of my customer would ever buy this crap and mount in on it's car. :)
 
Oh, i dont know much about tires, i not knowing that the BF Goodrich are bad, i thought the opossite because the Bajas use them.

Edit: anyway, it can be use, the TGM model for start.
 
Sure there are better ones for racing available but i know the street tires just as crap while i'm selling the most dunlop, michelin, pirelli, continental, hankook and such. It is just my experience with road cars and driver in germany, at least with my and regional customers.

Yes it is a base to start with for simulating.
 
speed1 said:
BF Goodrich are very bad tires in real as well, even in dry on road cars. No chance against europion manufacturer. It can't be very usefull to simulate this crap, or someone is intrested to simulate bad tires. :)
Click to expand...
Presumably anyone wanting to simulate a car which uses them might find it useful. :)
 
Yes it wasn't meant as useless to simulate, more useless as a tire and therefore the simultion result. It might be possible, it lets your great sim car look like crap except soneone is intrested to replicate unwished car behaviour, which is all time the goal if racing and driving to eliminate bads and support the car dynamic with good tires matching to it's purpose. :)
 
The Skip Barber purposely uses those tires for the grip levels and handling they wanted to create. IMHO every tire has it's place. :)
 
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