Wow, it's been so long since an update people aren't even complaining any more...

Yep, pretty much sums it up Nand ..shame as a lot of what's there already is soo good

 

I wouldn't compare traditional industries to software development. They are in completely different ground. In trad industries everybody who works there knows how stuff is and should be designed and built, in this case, an airplane. The whole culture of trad industries has many hundred years of tradition behind it, compared to software development which is only now starting to form work conventions.

In software industry every company with own engine has their own framework with unique construction. Usually when new employee comes to house he has to continue work of other people, which have built their own techs, conventions and principles not found in any other company. This learning phase is what takes most time, and more complex the systems are (like a simulation game engine) more time it takes to get into productive speed.

 

Right Here Waiting for you.....ISI

She gonna coming soon.................

 

Wrong. It's not like every company uses it's own magic development environment where new members of the team have to be introduced for a long time. ISI just does not have enough employees to make steady progress with rfactor2. Reading their postings here it becomes obvious they have 1 or at most 2 persons for physics, graphics, tracks, cars, support etc. each. You just need to keep an eye on Tim W.'s behaviour here. He handpicks some topics every now and then, answers them and then disappears again - sometimes for several days. That's not what I expected after paying 65 €. Now almost one year after the first beta there is still so much wrong in so many aspects with rfactor2. But we won't hear or read anything about ISI's future plans. So I guess most people have just given up.

"Soon", a word I don't take seriously anymore when ISI uses it. In their vocabulary it means tomorrow or next month or whatever.

Richard Marx?

 

Software dev does seem to take a long time with no one knowing for sure when or how long until completion

Rfactor 2 if ISI achieve what they have set out to do is offering pretty much everything one could want in a sim, it's an ambitious project.

It does seem to me that the last few plates seem to not be that much diferent thus I'm doing another season in iracing (3months)
I'm now hoping at some point in 2013 I pickup rf2 again and think "hang on -their almost there! ) "
I would hate to see rf2 start to disappear into the background as everyone moves to other sims during this time.

 

Surely the pressure must be on at ISI maybe they could do some kind of rejig or take steps to really get this thing nailed & I'm not referring to more content

 

Aircraft design and manufacture has a very big software engineering section as you can imagine aircraft are now completely infused with software (that was one of the departments I was in). And we did ship in and ship out software engineers left, right and centre. As mentioned above, the core software environments are similar - it's not like a new state of the art technology like quantum computing is being designed and built here. If a top-grade software engineer can't be plucked and dropped without hitting the ground running, I'd question whether he was top-grade.

There's not much more complex than aerospace grade software - we're talking about thousands/millions of lives at stake.


Sorry all as this discussion I'm having with Jo is a bit off topic and although I have my views on software development, it's purely an outsiders view with no visibility of the inner structure of ISI. All I can comment (and will comment on) is what the outputs are.

 

There`s two more Tim Wheatley`s?

 

The problem is, there really isn't any racing to do. The servers are quiet, leagues won't touch a beta and the sparse content that is out there just is not suitable quality for league racing anyway. What we have is beta quality, unfinished. The eternal beta is a joke we all paid into. ISI is not working on this fast enough. Hell, we were promised dirt physics within a year or so, out of beta within 6 months- modders were supposed to release content. There are a lot of good tracks but that's it.

Where the hell is the content?

 

Agree pretty much. ISI clearly doesn't want to attrack too much people because they do honestly nothing for it right now.


Somebody asked where is Maxym.. he's still banned, I kinda miss him too, lol.

 

Show me where dirt physics were promised please.

 

Let's not forget that they estimated a 6 months beta. Most people over here think that another year is needed to have something polished. This means 2 years of beta.

IMO, there are 2 possible explanations:
1. ISI did not manage to make it within the planned timeframes > I can live with it...
2. ISI did know when selling the beta for full price that it would still need 2 years. > I cannot live with that, as it implies that we've been intentially fooled to get our money early.

I my eyes, ISI just f... it up with regard to the scheduling... I have less issues with this option Which does not mean that I'm fine with their way to treat customers.

 

Well, there's huge difference of how much money is involved in these two software projects? rF2: millions of dollars? Aeroplane: hundreds or even billions of dollars?

Btw I don't wonder anymore why even new planes keep crashing down as software engineering is done in such a "fast in -fast out" manner! On top of that 88% of pilots have reported being so tired after flight that couldn't drive home. Safety onboard indeed!

Please don't take it personal because it's ment to criticize the whole way of doing stuffs nowadays. Greed and hurry - two main driving forces...

 

I have a lot of appreciation for ISI, I had a load of good times in rfactor 1, when I look at the features (I know there not complete) that are in rf2 I drool,
No other sim (even the ones that are still also in beta) has these features ( dynamic real road atmosphere , etc )

Its just a matter of patience I guess )-:

I'm still hoping there will be an update coming which is a big step towards completion though
-the thought of these little updates that it just seems things have just been "tinkered" with for the next year or so is intolerable

 

Planned timeframes/schedules and software development IS a joke to begin with. Being ten years within the business believe me those planned schedules never hold. Programmers are always way too optimistic about how fast they are able to complete things. That's just human nature. And with pioneering products like rF2 it's even more difficult to anticipate.

My personal way is to stop dreaming and calm down. Next update will come when it's ready to be published. Some day it will be the last update before gold and afterwards no-one will remember how long we had to wait for it.

 

Ad.1. If so it means they suck badly at estimating. TBH I don't believe they could have made such a huge mistake when it comes to planning the development.
Ad.2. Seems more likely than ad. 1, but who knows there may have been some other factors.

Sadly, after ten months of beta (alpha for me), main selling features (RealRoad, weather, etc.) are still more or less at the same stage (scripted, hard coded, bugged) as in January. That's a real shame.

 

"Planned timeframes/schedules and software development IS a joke to begin with. Being ten years within the business believe me those planned schedules never hold. Programmers are always way too optimistic about how fast they are able to complete things. That's just human nature. And with pioneering products like rF2 it's even more difficult to anticipate."

I'm sorry but I cannot agree at all: Developing software is not a "crystal ball-unicorn"-thing. Normally it's a planned project with milestones, options and alternatives to deliver a certain level of quality at a certain moment. Sometimes you might not be able to deliver 100% of what was planned, however if you cash-in, you have to deliver within a reasonable timeframe. Ignoring customer requests on progress and blaming "impatient" customers does not seem to be the way you handle such a problem.

 

Couple things.
These posts are great read, people actually come and throw in a bigger gear and tell how they really feel. As I have stated here before that their feelings and opinnions arent technically wrong, but they can be idiotic, so lets keep that in mind before Timmy has to come and put a lock on it (or a sock).

Anywhoo... critisism is a great thing, makes one revise their actions/thoughts/plans at its best, even if its just to double check that whats going on in their little heads is in order and is waterproof if need be. At its worst its just plain ol' stupid, unjustified, and totally fact free (like republicans).
To question their work pace, money spenditure or knowhow are totally fine topics, and can totally tick off especially us the most impatient kind, but behaving like you think that spending that 60 €/$/£/pesos or what ever you use in your country, is somehow making the developers obligated to keep you entertained, is the biggest horse **** these forums have seen since the World War 2.
It clearly states there that to take part in testing an unfinished product you need to pay and we let you do that, but when its all done and you get your new toy? sorry no can do, have things to do, people to kill... tata. You bloody well are asked to accept the terms and they state the same crap + they known to be doing refunds so... all I can say is wow!

Now since there is as ridiculous release dates reported on some sites (Q2 2012, simracingworld for example) still, and this "beta" we are running is so called "open beta" which in mmo's is very common terminology and usually gets one in if there is a prepurchase receipt in your pocket these days (making it not really an open but pay to play beta), would deffinetly be the end of that mmo franchise if it ran for this long.
This isnt exactly the same thing tho, but naming it open beta and still dangle that carrot of hope out there is kinda tacky, and if one puts two healthy braincells together and rubs just a little, it is quite easy to come to this conclusion.
Rather would have had a statement with "sorry were gonna be late, and to make this worth your while, have fun with the beta, but gold is off to 2013". Its not a suicide note or pissing against the wind at all... look at shogoshugi nasumasu and how many times/years he delayed GT5 by throwing a bone (prelude=beta) and when it came out, it was good and people were happy as a clam.

Anywhoo...I have no idea what ISI is gonna do and when, but while waiting to see, Im off to neverneverland to see a pink unicorn and a leprechaun fight over F1 license in a pool of molten rubber.

 

I like you.

 

There is enough content for league racing. I honestly think realroad goes over alot of peoples heads and they just want to go back to their old sim where they have the fast setups.