Wow, it's been so long since an update people aren't even complaining any more...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kknorpp001, Nov 21, 2012.

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  1. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    Simply not true Tim...

     
  2. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    What professional simulation developers (not ISI, because clearly we dont fit your criteria here) have you seen that from, exactly? What sim dev has shared their timeline with you?
     
  3. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    ? Point stands as is. We said there would be, because there is. We made the decision to. We didn't have to, as I said.......

    Honestly I think you missed the point.
     
  4. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    Tim Wheatley... I love you.

    --> stop making fuel out of corn fuel making industry... I need moar popcorn.
     
  5. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I love you too. Now I'm going to sleep. ;)
     
  6. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    Goodnight
     
  7. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    yeh i must be... i took your post as you said you never gave any notification that there would be updates... but you posted there would be updates when the beta came out...so i saw that as notification there would be updates ..sorry my bad
     
  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I wasn't clear in what I meant. Tired :)
     
  9. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Yeah I get that, though the time it takes to drop the odd comment like "rain model going well, have done xyz today and it's looking good...blah blah" is, well a matter of moments. It would mean a lot...but I except it's not going to happen and am not going to shed any tears over it. I look forward to Gjon's post ;)
     
  10. Cracheur

    Cracheur Registered

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    "The devs are too busy developing" hmmm, if the devs don't have time anymore to think about milestones and a timeline, something must have gone terribly wrong... That's part of the job my eyes. As you mentioned several times, ISI simply has decided NOT to inform their customers. Even though I think it's wrong from a customer treatment point of view (especially considering the delay), we can't do anything about it. Ignoring the demands from your existing customers does however raise some frustration at the customer side... Frustrated customer are not very forgiving...

    On the other side you are blaming the customer for being impatient and that whatever you would post they would complain... Ever thought that the communication from ISI could simply be bad? Always question yourself before blaming your customers...

    On the other side, AC does not inform in detail either... the differences is that we haven't paid for the sim already today.. or a year ago.
     
  11. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    My brain still fails to understand this crazy subject...If you were keen on rFactor 2, you probably would buy it when it comes out. What ISI did though, was to offer towards people to pay for the full game now, but also get access to beta funtimes. Some may even see it as a chance to get a headstart on the handling of the sim, who knows.

    You still get the game when it comes out as a proper release...while also playing it now...


    Of course the devs (or the lead devs) would be thinking of milestones. They need to know what to work towards, and whats important to work on first.

    What they don't want, as Tim has said many times, is to be constanly announcing, and then withdrawing statements regarding the builds. Tim just said the latest build is pushed back a week or more. Issues happen with software this complex


    If they annouce everything that is meant to happen, and miss deadlines through problems, some "customers" will get pissy. Call the dev team inadequate, etc.
    If they say nothing at all and just release it as builds are ready, people will claim ISI don't care about the customer base, maybe they feel their beta feedback means nothing.
    If they had no open beta at all, and were still having the issues which delay the development, people would claim the project is dead, that ISI is out of money, whatever.
    And if they rushed it as hard as they could to get the gold release out ASAP, maybe features would be missing or incomplete, and we would be let down by their earlier promises. Even worse would be a broken game on release day that seems all too common on modern AAA titles.



    Take your frustration out on track, most everyone has the same build and the cream will always rise to the top ;)
    If you think another game will give you a better use for your time, go do it. Frankly though, my old sims feel terrible compared to this beta rF2...
     
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  12. Cracheur

    Cracheur Registered

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    "What they don't want, as Tim has said many times, is to be constanly announcing, and then withdrawing statements regarding the builds. Tim just said the latest build is pushed back a week or more. Issues happen with software this complex


    If they annouce everything that is meant to happen, and miss deadlines through problems, some "customers" will get pissy. Call the dev team inadequate, etc.
    If they say nothing at all and just release it as builds are ready, people will claim ISI don't care about the customer base, maybe they feel their beta feedback means nothing.
    If they had no open beta at all, and were still having the issues which delay the development, people would claim the project is dead, that ISI is out of money, whatever.
    And if they rushed it as hard as they could to get the gold release out ASAP, maybe features would be missing or incomplete, and we would be let down by their earlier promises. Even worse would be a broken game on release day that seems all too common on modern AAA titles."


    I'm sorry but you're not adding anything to the discussion:
    ISI does not manage to stick to their timeline(if there is any). This makes it difficult for them to inform customers properly.
    Instead of improving the project timeline or figure out why the communication did raise frustrations, they decide to solve "the problem" by not communicating at all anymore.

    That's all I'm saying... and trust me, rF2 will not frustate me-;) it's definitely not that important in my life.

    In the meantime, I just think that it's very interesting to see the different reactions from customers. People are very emotional when it comes to this discussion... Some feel very involved and defend ISI, even though they never get a reply... others just feel treated badly...
    Is there anybody right or wrong? I don't think so.
    Customers have the right to behave like customers.
    Fans have the right to behave like fans. (I'm not saying fanboy and don't mean it)

    Even though I'm also a big fan of rF1 & rF2, I'm as well a demanding customer... hence I have tendency to ask for more transparency at this point of time. ( > full price for beta... since 12months)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2012
  13. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    :rolleyes: Is anyone actually adding anything?

    So you think that you have valuable input towards their internal problems with the development of rFactor 2? Or are you just very eager like the rest of us to see a complete rFactor 2?
    We play the versions that are released, and report bugs in the correct forum...thats as far as we will ever get.

    And what do you mean by "improve the project timeline"? Do you mean work on the game? Or do you mean spend time setting goals to announce to the public, that will become obselete when another hold up arises? ;)



    Some people don't feel involved at all and just drive, and are fine with that. :D
     
  14. Cracheur

    Cracheur Registered

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    "So you think that you have valuable input towards their internal problems with the development of rFactor 2? "

    Actually not at all, how could I, being without info.

    However ISI seem to complain more about the "external" problem: the customer.
    Wouldn't it be much easier without customers... they are just annoying and are probably the reason of the delay...

    Here's a good exemple of a friendly reply to a customer:

    "? Point stands as is. We said there would be, because there is. We made the decision to. We didn't have to, as I said......."

    This probably means something like: "Independently of what we told you before, stop complaining we do anyway what we want."

    Honestly, that's not the way you speak with customers...
     
  15. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    When it goes Gold you will be a Customer. Until then you are a Guest :)
     
  16. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I see many people are upset because of they thought that the game will go gold sometime in 2012 when this open beta (or what ever you want to call it) was first released. Now there are no timeline anymore. Because it is already a quality product and I am sure it will get even better, I am not complaining over this issue. Also I am fine with supporting the developement of this game with my money, knowing that the end product will be better this way.

    I still understand all the fusturation around this forum. Many who bought the game in developement stage did not really know what they were up to. I did not know. I had not idea of how long this could take, how could I? No real promises were given. I singed in because I was exited about this game and beta process was a new thing for me to try. I noticed that many people had idea what beta should mean and they are upset because this was not beta after all. I believe most of us are gamers, not developers or testers by nature. For the gamers, endless testing stage does not give what they need. They maybe payed the price in order to get the better game faster...not because of the pure joy of testing things.

    I end up with saying that Tim should maybe open up a thread and sum up things with one long informative message instead of many short answers. I believe that some people are afraid of this game turning bad or not finished at all. They are maybe considering trying to get their money back. This is understandable because there is much competition in SIM genre at the moment. Sometimes you might end up buying a worse product just because of the good customer service you get. 2 months were not enough time to evaluate If one wants to stick with this game. Now I want deffinently stick with it and see the glorious gold product :) )
     
  17. Cracheur

    Cracheur Registered

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    "When it goes Gold you will be a Customer. Until then you are a Guest."

    "Scotty don't"

    seriously, let's stop this here, people seem to get very confused...
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Well, your eyes are seeing something that wasn't said. So nevermind, eh? :) You even quoted what was actually said, then just took it and made up your own interpretation. Not very sporting.
     
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