Would like to reduce the "arcade game" feel to steering response

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrew Nagy, May 22, 2021.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    lol, I edited myself after fully reading your reply. I hope you figure it out. FINDING the screenshot after taking one is often more challenging. The trouble with that area, EVERYONE,(every screen grab app) uses their own location on your hard drive. best of luck.
     
  2. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    OK, here are my various settings, starting with my Fanatec wheel tuning menu:
    upload_2021-5-23_15-16-46.png

    upload_2021-5-23_15-20-47.png

    Arrgh!! For some reason I don't understand, my image capture stopped working, so I'm only able to display the two above.
     
  3. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Crap, this is massively frustrating. On top of the issues with my screen capture, whenever I go into RF2, it takes up my whole screen(s), so I can't toggle between the forum and the game, so I can only take one snip at a time, exit the game, post the snip, relaunch the game, etc. I'm not sure this is worth all the aggravation - maybe I'll just live with the arcade-game steering...:mad:
     
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  4. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Do you have Nvidia? It allows you to take as many screenshots you need and then it saves them. What program/method are you using? Prt Screen?
     
  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I can't see anything wrong here with your setup. Is 360 the steerung degrees you have in real life, to match the car? I doubt that your coach doesn't know what he is doing, so he might have already messed with steering lock too.

    Since your issues are stemming from following laps after the outlap, I can't really see it being anything more than something about tires behavior and pressures rising. Maybe try to do an outlap that is very slow and report back the next laps. Try to mantain the tires close to how they were when you started. If you at the following lap are feeling the same, than I guess it's something other than physics. Maybe some weird bug or something with how real road is working for you at AMP?
     
  6. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I'm using Snip & Sketch, which is activated by holding down the windows key while selecting shift-s. It works for capturing any image, except when I'm inside the race set-up part of RF2. As you can see, it successfully captured an image from within the Settings part of RF2, but not when I'm in the Set-up section within Race. I've tried Print Screen, and it doesn't work at all.

    I have an Nvidia video card - is that what you mean when you ask whether I have Nvidia? If so, could you explain how to use it to perform screen captures? Thanks.
     
  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, an Nvidia card :D. I usually only record videos and you can configure it to take screenshots at the key/combination you want, but Alt+F1 seems to be the default. You need to have the nvidia overlay active though, wich you can try to hit the ALT+F1 and see if it gives you any notification, or you can go on the right of the windows bar where you can find the nvidia icon and click right mouse button to chose nvidia experience. There you can see under config or options if yoi have it activated. After that the screens should be saved at Windows Images or something.

    You should then also be able to just select what you want with the Snip and Scetch tool, if you prefer to have something cropped or even at Paint you can do that and also some sort of annotation to your screenshots if you see fit.
     
  8. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I'm not sure what the number of steering degrees on the real car - I've never checked it, and it's a car I rent for the races, so it isn't available for me to check. I think 360 degrees was the default setting in the game(?).

    That's a good suggestion to try a very slow out lap and see if the subsequent laps then behave differently. I noticed the same behavior when I had Realroad set to Green; I was hoping moving to Naturally Progressing would improve the grip to more realistic levels and improve the steering feel, but I didn't notice any difference.

    But again, this doesn't feel like any sort of warm-up effect, because 1) It's backwards from how a car behaves as it warms up, and 2) It doesn't change as the laps build - it's a step function change from the out lap to all of the timed laps. I agree that is sounds like something other than physics.
     
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  9. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    alt-F1 doesn't create a screen capture for me. Also, and this is really weird, but now windows-alt-s no longer works within the Settings section, either. It still successfully captures images outside of RF2, but it can't capture images at all within any screen of RF2. Bizarre...
     
  10. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I am going to try and send some screenshots to guide you through screen capturing process. Not on my computer now, but give me some minutes.

    Yeah, RF2 is inconsistent when it comes to alt tabbing it and switching to say Google Chrome. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't and that problem with the windows tool might have something to do with that.

    You should also click on the vehicle set so you can actually change the X for vehicle set being positive. I think that will help you. The SR3 has 520 degrees steering lock I believe, so 360 might be a reason why you are having issues with some abruptness, since you will also have more grip on the front tires so when you turn, the back can have more issues rotating (more pendulum torque and oversteer).
     
  11. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ok, I made a video to try to guide you into verifying what shortcut you have for screen capture with the Nvidia overlay. You need to have this updated and also have an account on this. I think you can associate Google acoount to it. This also allows you to keep your GPU drivers up to date.

    Hope you can figure it out by looking at the video. I even switched the language to English since I am from Portugal. Good luck.

    You should be seeing this when you take a screenshot.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Sorry if this has already been covered, but your steering wheel range in game looks very low (360°) Is it meant to be that low? Please do the following if you can, click on the littile cross next to the word "Vehical set" on the calibrate screen. The symbol should change from a cross to a tick, and the steering wheel range should change.

    Driving at 360° would be very difficult and touchy for me that's for sure. I personally like to drive at about 720° or 900° (although I will always try to have a go and drive the car at it's real life setting).

    All of the above relates to the steering wheel roatation from lock to lock. The lower the number, the faster and more sensitive the steering is, the higher the number the slower and less sensitive is.

    Also, seperate to this setting, you can also change the steering degree of the car itself in the setup menu. I believe in this regard, the lower the degree, the less the tires turn and thus less sensitive steering. This is not difficult to do at all and it can make a huge difference.

    Hope this is usefull.

    As far as the set-up goes, in regards to your issue, yes it's not about balancing under/oversteer, it's about the responsiveness of the car itself. It can't hurt to just go in and make eveything a little softer and compliant, a little less edgy, and cut a few laps and see how it feels. It can make a very big difference. It can be subjective, so if it dosn't work for you, it's no sweat just change it straight back. I feel like it's a big part of how the cars feel and respond and so it would be quite an ommission not to experiment with it yourself at least a little.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
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  13. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    @green serpent: On the suggestion in an IM from one of the members here, I have played around with the steering wheel range. I moved it all the way to 900, but that may be a little too much, because while it reduced the twitchiness of the steering, it made it a little too numb. So I'll try something in between, like 720 degrees.

    For the value of the steering degree of the car in the setup menu, what would you recommend? Mine is currently at 360. Thanks.
     
  14. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    Well, that seems to have helped. I set the steering wheel angle to 720 in both the Fanatec steering menu, and on the RF2 settings page. I also slightly softened the front springs, and stiffened the rear ones, because I noticed that with the more natural steering response, I was experiencing some understeer in the tight, slow corners. Overall, this made a noticeable improvement - I'm pretty happy with the steering response now.

    But I'm still noticing a lot more grip overall on the out lap compared to the timed laps. This is just so odd. The car feels great on the out lap - very similar to the real car. But the grip level on the timed laps is definitely less that what I feel in the real car. I haven't tried doing a very slow out lap yet - I'll try that next. But overall, the driving experience is significantly better now, with a lot less of the pendulum "arcade game" feel to the steering. I really appreciated everyone taking the time to offer me constructive suggestions.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, but you should probably just clicking on the cross where it says "vehicle set", because that way you will be having every car match the steering wheel of the real car. I think the SR3 is around the 500/600 degrees. But if 720 works, well, just let it be ;).

    Also, try some other cars and tell us if you are experiencing the same thing.

    My only guess is that somehow you are having more grip on the front tires once they warm up and all and the rear is being overpowered by that, making you oversteer. There is no differential setup option, so it's something that can actually be limiting you!
     
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  16. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Glad that you're seeing improvements! It's a bit unusual with the whole outlap thing, usually with realroad the track should gain grip as you lay down more rubber. If I could take a wild guess (and it's only a guess), I would say that the inside portion on your front tires are overheating, and becoming too hot relative to the inner and outer portions of the front tires.

    When on track, if it isn't already on screen, bring up the "Multi Function Display" with the 6 key, then hit the 0 key until the tire display appears. Drive the car on track as you normally would, ideally on a course with some long steady corners, and through the corners notice if the INSIDE of your front tires (i.e the most inboard part of the tire - the part of the tire closest to the mid line of the car), are heating up more than the outside (FYI it's the surface temp of the tire being shown). This is not what you would call using the scientific method, but it will give you at least a basic idea of what is going on which you can work from.

    If you are finding that the inside of the tire is dramatically heating up and the outside of the tire isn't getting much love, I suggest lowering your front camber quite a lot (like 1.5°ish or lower). Then give it another go.

    If you want to get more precise with it, you can do a few laps at pace, then hit ESC and go to the pits, then check the core temps of the tire in the tire set-up tab. The goal is to have the temps of the tire somewhat even from outside to the inside, with the outside possibly a little hotter.

    Once again, I'm not an expert and maybe some of what I have said could even be considered contentious, but with no other options we may aswell throw mud at the wall and see what sticks. If it dosn't work, no harm done.
     
  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Honestly, this guy got too much help.
     
  18. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    I have had a look at a few things in detail and I have come across something that will almost certainly affect the steering in the manner you describe.

    The dampers on this mod seem a little bizarre. I can see they are modeled on the Intrax 3 way adjustable units but I haven't been able to find a dyno readout or precise specification of this component. It does seem bizarre that the front slow bump is a lower rate than the stock unit on the early low downforce, weaker sprung SR1 models. Same for the rear rebound.

    The default set-up is very soft on the front slow bump and rear slow rebound (by necessity) and very stiff on the front slow rebound and rear slow bump. The histograms look as ugly as you would expect. Getting the dampers as close to a more conventional balance as the weird range of adjustment will allow makes the handling much livelier and a good deal more fun.
     
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  19. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    You seem to have a very deep understanding of the impact of the dampers on handling. I did a lot of research on the setup of my real track car (a Porsche 968), and have gotten it very nicely sorted, but I never delved very deeply into the dampers, largely because I didn't need to. Once I got the front and rear roll centers at a reasonable height, and corrected the spring rates and front and rear sway bar stiffness, the car behaved very well near the center of the dampers (Moton Clubsports) adjustment ranges. So your understanding is way ahead of mine. First of all, out of curiosity, how did you find the settings on my sim car? I ask because my coach found the car, but I have no idea where, because it isn't one of the choices offered by RF2. But again, I know next to nothing about how sim software works.

    Anyway, I'm partially, but not completely, following what you're saying. What values would you recommend for my front/rear slow bump, slow rebound, fast bump, fast rebound? You seem to already know this somehow, but my current settings are:

    F/R slow bump = 25/12
    F/R slow rebound = 25/25
    F/R fast bump = 25/25
    F/R Fast rebound = 25/25

    As another observation, compared to the real car, there is a fair bit of understeer in the tight, slow corners, which is why I've been playing with the spring rates to nudge the car more toward oversteer, now that the steering response is more natural. This is definitely interesting stuff, and I really appreciate your taking an interest in my case. Do you think the damper settings could have anything to do with the fact that the car feels so much more natural and hooked up on the out lap than on all the timed laps?
     
  20. Andrew Nagy

    Andrew Nagy Registered

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    I have no idea what that comment means. My hope is that we can all learn from each others' experiences, and that any improvements in the way my sim car behaves as a result of the generous inputs from the guys on this great resource will help others who might be experiencing the same things that I am. I would venture that there aren't too many people like me who are driving the exact same car on the exact same track in real life as on the sim, which presents a unique opportunity to assess and hopefully improve upon the realism of the RF2 experience. My case is especially unique in that I'm new at both the sim, and real-life racing, so I'm enjoying the benefits of simultaneously climbing two learning curves, and hope I can share those benefits with others on the forum.
     
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