Will rFactor2 Graphic Be As Good As Project CARS?

Discussion in 'Technical Archives' started by taufikp, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. taufikp

    taufikp Registered

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    And here's the video from P-CARS Pre-Alpha Build 135. The graphic engine really is awesome. But the physics, well, let's not talk about the physics yet. This is Pre-Alpha version! Not even an Alpha version! ;)



    What I see from that video, PCARS is also using HDR and dynamic real time reflection. I don't know about sun occlusion.

    Well, to me PCARS is like those popular beautiful girls in school, while RF2 is the bright student with regular looks. :D
     
  2. nike23osu

    nike23osu Registered

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    At the end of the day who cares....we arent driving around looking at blades of grass or saying gosh this looks so beautiful. No we are racing...more importantly we are driving a simulator. In that reguard rF2 is MILES ahead of pCARS.
     
  3. T.G.H. Freaky0Frager

    T.G.H. Freaky0Frager Registered

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    Thx made.
    I have only Junior Account, but last week i can´t download the 129, will do it soon. :D
    How Much is the difference from 129 to 135?

    To Topic:

    How believe really that rF2 with DX9 engine can compete with DX11 games?
    I don´t think that rF2 can looks so good as pCARS without a change of gaphiks-engine, but I can´t believe that ISI will this do.
    The beta do not represent the final look of rF2, but i think rF2 remains a DX9 game. ;)

    sorry for bad english.
     
  4. racechicken

    racechicken Registered

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    Ian has wrote in the past that SMS use a basic version of the ISI Physics. Will be interesting which additional basic stuff from ISI pCARS used. It makes absolutely sense for me that SMS doing that. They have much experience with the ISI stuff. I will not compare both games each of them has pros and conts.
     
  5. SimonV6

    SimonV6 Registered

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    Well I guess its hard to compare both untill they are both finished ;)
    I don't know much about graphic engines, but the pCars I have (build 135) has both a DX9 and DX11 versions, and DX9 doesnt look a whole lot different as yet to the DX11? so rF2 can improve even in DX9 i think?

    Simon
     
  6. taufikp

    taufikp Registered

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    Actually DX9 and DX11 is not too different, especially in renders and shaders department. The real big difference of DX11 is tessellation. With tessellation active, the GPU will add more polygon into a 3D object on-the-fly. So, if you have a DX11 game with support for tessellation, you'll get smoother and detailed 3D model, created on-the-fly.

    In an adventure or first person game, tessellation (usually) is implemented for terrain or organic shaped 3D model. What about in Project CARS, being a DX11 sim, is tessellation being used as well?
     
  7. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Like I said, while DX11 does have some tricks up it's sleeve, pCARS looks identical in DX9 and DX11. Everything that's currently in pCARS is doable in DX9, and the performance difference between them is small, and can go either way depending on your rig. DX11 would be nice, but DX9 can still provide the eye candy you're looking for, easily.
    SMS's Madness Engine is indeed based on ISI's engine, but they've replaced just about everything with their own code, and currently all that's left of the old ISI code is some low level suspension code, and they're in the process of replacing that too (as told by Ian Bell over at the pCARS forums). So drawing comparisons with ISI's engine is a bit moot at this point.

    And for those that didn't know, the tyre model they have was done by Eero Piitulainen, the man behind the physics of RBR. They haven't had a chance to try and do a real sim with their engine yet, so there's still a lot of baggage from the Shift series left in the code, but they do have some great tech available, and the end result will most likely surprise a few people.
     
  8. shum94

    shum94 Registered

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    What i really like to know is the basics of the engine.

    How much poly or triangle (whatever) are displayed or used for the track (tarmack) width and for the for curbs.

    Forget Dx9 and Dx11, pcars can be run on both and it looks similar.

    What i'd like to see in rF 2 is the sharpness the rF 1 engine gave when you were on the track. Probably because of the beta stage right now it's messy but it worries me. Just go on the latest page of rF1 screenshot thread to see how good it looks.

    I hope the graphical engine task is number 1 in the final development of rFactor 2.
     
  9. navorsky

    navorsky Registered

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    To make the long story short, i´ve installed pCars , its very beautiful but i´m afraid its graphics doesn´t leaves room for much heavy physics implementation. Simulation is a process intensive calculation, with tons of data being analysed in real time, in modest pc configurations this, for itself, can be very stressful. Now this combined with eyecandy graphics, intense particle dynamics ( dust, smoke, debris ) and etc, would make the game pratically unplayable for MOST of us, who enjoy playing simulators during weekends and dont have available money to keep a pc up-to-date, specially because we have kids/or wifes.

    So, i think rFactor is heading to the right direction, having decent graphics and very good physics, which for the majority of the racing simulator enthusiasts are enough....


    I´ve got to say, i´m gladly satisfied with the actual physics and graphics, and im very happy with the way its being developed. The ForceFeedback IMO is one fo the best i´ve ever saw ( in the F60´s and FRenault 3.5 , didn´t tried Mégane yet... ) and i know it can be ( and will be ) pushed to the limits.
     
  10. Uff

    Uff Registered

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    I do. We're in 2012, the old story "sim = bad graphic" could be true 10 years ago, not now.
    If you have doubts about pCARS because of the previous SMS titles, Assetto Corsa shows what we should expect from a modern game.

    [​IMG]

    rF2 is a beta, pCARS is a pre-alpha: it's a bit different. ;) rF2 still has to improve a lot too, as many features will work properly only with future updates.
     
  11. F2kSel

    F2kSel Registered

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    I'm sorry but the argument about good graphics equal bad physics is just nonsense, this was true in the early day of computing with very limited options for upgrades but now with multiple Cores and GPUs it really is an excuse. From what I've seen neither rF2 or pCARS are using more than two cores, rFactor2 barley uses one properly.

    It all comes down to the skill of the developer and how much time and effort they're willing to put into it, especially when it comes to optimisation as that alone could take many months.
    I think the problem is rather than fully optimising a game it's easier just to say upgrade this or that.

    I find both titles a little disappointing if I'm honest, more so rFactor2 due to stutter and poor AA.
     
  12. shum94

    shum94 Registered

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    Whoever did this screen, i mean published it is dishonnest. The left side is the real deal all compressed and blurry. The right side is the sim with full filtering.

    And i dont believe a Intel 2700k at 4.5 Ghz with 4 cores and hyperthreating meaning windows has 8 thread cant run a proper sim with great graphics/physics.

    Specialy with 2012 graphic cards.


    To end this great legendary argument i like to hear ISI T Bone and ISI Joe stating what you're saying.
     
  13. RMachucaA

    RMachucaA Registered

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    RFactor really needs to step up GFX wise, no doubt.

    The part that really bothers me, this being a modding platform, is the lame suspension animations. Notice PCars and how incredible the suspension animations are, the driveshafts rotating and bending exactly where they should, its that type of attention to detail thats secverely lacking in RFactor atm.

    Im not sure wether the suspension animations that are in the game now with the old f1 cars is as good as it can get, if it is, then its pretty mediocre.
     
  14. Uff

    Uff Registered

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    Edit, nevermind.
     
  15. Del-Dredd

    Del-Dredd Registered

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    I have a post elsewhere about the suspension not pivoting at the correct pivot points shown, front and rear on 60's cars show it well.
    Had reply from Tim Wheatley saying there is still a lot of things that need to be added graphically that are already in engine and physics wise, these are known about and to be implemented.


    The bit i do not like currently with Pcars is how the drivers backside and heels stick below the 68 F1 car in replays, totally spoils the look.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2012
  16. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    So your main problem with it is a misaligned driver model (that doesn't even grab the wheel properly if you look closely)? I wish my concerns were as small as yours. =)
     
  17. saloei

    saloei Registered

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    there is a misconception on details. If I stood above the the car as the image shows http://i41.tinypic.com/f2lqj6.jpg, I I wouldn't be able to see the rice grains on the tarmac. I wouldn't care!
     
  18. SimonV6

    SimonV6 Registered

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    well they both are great to me and I play them in equal quanties, and I am sure both will improve even more with modders, just as rF1 did :)



    Simon.
     
  19. Bsmooth

    Bsmooth Registered

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    So I take it then that CARS isn't worth getting? I'm a huge fan of the 60's cars, that and I only have an I5-2500K, so I'm not sure If my system would handle it or not, although with my monitor being a 22" I only run at 1680 x 1050.
    Corsa and CARS are pretty high on my lists, but now i'm not so sure.
     
  20. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Project CARS is definitely worth getting into, and especially when it's actually done after a year or so. =)

    It wasn't that great for me at first due to excessive visual lag, but since they published build 141 the response is on par or slightly better than with rFactor or rFactor 2 on my computer, and after that got fixed, I saw the light. FFB feels great most of the time, the cars are easily controllable, sliding them feels intuitive etc. etc. It isn't done by any means, still firmly in pre-Alpha and less than 20% done, but I can vouch that it is a real honest to goodness simulator, terrific fun even now and will get better when it enters Alpha, and then again in Beta, and will easily be among the best simulators in the world when it eventually releases. I trust that Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2 will be better for modded content, but for premium content done by professionals it's going to be hard to beat. Hopefully the ISI and Kunos guys are up to the challenge though. =)
     

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