Will a High End Racing Wheel make you a better driver?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by William David Marsh, Nov 4, 2016.

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Will a Direct Drive Racing Wheel make you a better driver?

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    31.7%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    55.0%
  3. Maybe (Explain)

    8 vote(s)
    13.3%
  1. William David Marsh

    William David Marsh Registered

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    In the world of Sim Racing, we are starting to see the high end market become more and more accessible. One common thing I have heard is that a high end racing wheel will make you a better driver. I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.



    TL;DR Version - If you know what you're doing, a high end wheel will augment good driving habits. It WON'T fix bad driving

    What are your thoughts on the matter?
     
  2. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    For me that is the same as good pedals, many MANY people drive their sims in socks on their plastic super soft logitech pedals, that provides very good feel for braking and accelerating, sure, but a real car would be impossible to drive like that. I used to do that myself back in a day i had Logitech DFG, but now with T500RS i find it very painfull not to use shoes. But when i went to track day, i was immediatelly able to heel and toe my real car, people did not believe it was my first track day, thanks to rF2. I am better driver thanks to better gear, so the closer you can get to real, the better it will make you.. Better, not necessarly faster.
     
  3. Eddy

    Eddy Member

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    No my osw didn't make me faster but i still think it made me more consistent.
    But for sure the smile on my face when driving grew and still is there every time......i simply love it :)

    Good vid William:cool:
     
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  4. Prodigy

    Prodigy Registered

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    IMO - yes, high end wheel can make you a better driver. It won't fix bad driving, but it can make good driving even better, and eventually faster. Same goes for pedals as MikeeCZ said.
     
  5. 3NPV5IRR

    3NPV5IRR Registered

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    My first wheel was Logitech DFGT, second - T500 F1, and I also have Logitech G27. I drive neither of them in shoes as the springs on all the pedals are soft enough. I do not need them to be stiffer as it is just a matter of some time go get used to to whatever stiffness/softness.

    I think probably top level simrasers could find 0.1 second a lap with high end rim. Just because of a bit more accurate/precise behaviour of the device. However the majority of simracers (including myself) would drive as good/bad as with DFGT. Driving with high-end rim is just a matter of greater fun and better reliabitity.
     
  6. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    At the very least the placebo effect will make you faster, although crapped out pots and worn springs on an old wheel aren't helping you go faster. Fresh wheels and pedals are always better. If the only variable is high end vs cheap (input into game engine is identical) then there is no difference.
     
  7. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I've never used a high end wheel, but from what I've seen the higher n/m of force and lack of center dead zone seem to give the car a much more stable attitude. Most cars feel unstable and loose from my experience, and I chalk that up to center dead zone and lack of sufficient self aligning torque.

    Better ffb will result in an easier to control car and better times, but maybe driving on a bad wheel is good practice, because you're not relying on the ffb to keep the car steady.
     
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  8. Azril Nazli Alias

    Azril Nazli Alias Registered

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    DD gives more informations to your hand, not just pure brute strength
    Sim Commander 4 gives more informations to your pedals,seats via Buttkickers
     
  9. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    sore feet ?? really .. I guess I live bare footed for most of the year .. As for better quality ,depends on transferred fidelity I guess. the more the better. If $$ means more ,then yes.
     
  10. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    I would certainly think that a more realistic FFB output would definitely help improving driving skills considering the absence of G forces. You can better feel low end force level details without clipping at higher end forces.

    For sure, a high FFB wheel could provide some negative effect in terms of precision and speed of your wheel reactions. Also fatigue issues could arise affecting laptimes and driving.

    In my opinion a more realistic FFB will make you a better driver. I haven't tried a direct drive wheel myself so I cannot affirm it is providing a more realistic FFB.

    Being a much powerful and precise hardware it for sure could certainly provide a more realistic FFB. However, having so many configuration possibilities it could provide a worst result than a less capable hardware if not correctly configured.

    Some time ago I provided a written procedure of how I would check for the accuracy of FFB system when reproducing a FFB input commanded by a sim.

    There was absolutely NO feedback about it. Absolutely nobody was interested in checking if the configuration of their DD drive wheel was accurately delivering the expected FFB. People prefer to use trial and error methods without even knowing what is the real FFB to be expected.

    Hence, IMO the question is not correctly stated since it presumes a DD wheel will always provide a more realistic FFB.
    It should rather question if a more realistic FFB will make you a better driver.
     
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  11. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    My thoughts
    High end ffb system:

    1)
    User will enjoy more so perhaps use it more thus more practice = better driver

    2)
    In a tight quick moving situation the zero slop in the system could help if the user has very fast reactions
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  12. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    "Will a hign-end racing wheel make you a better driver?"
    Send me one and I'll let you know!


    It will certainly help with improved feeling and give confidence on low speed moments. Anything bringing it closer to real feelings should offer a better chance at improving laptimes, but it shouldn't make a bad driver suddenly be good.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2016
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  13. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Plenty of fast drivers out there on low-end gear, even gamepads (sigh). A videogame is a videogame, so high-end gear has no relationship to the ability to play it well as that's all down to hand/eye coordination.

    On the other hand, high-end gear makes the experience more transferable to the real world. Fatigue & soreness is a real-life factor one has to contend with.
     
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  14. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I did "something" to my right foot back at the beginning of October, broke a bone or soft tissue damage and it HURT to hold the gas pedal down -- even worse using brake pedal. Had to quit simracing in socks and pulled the Simpson shoes out of the closet. It's been gradually healing and I can now drive 10 minute sessions in socks, but... ow!
     
  15. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    I don't know if direct drive wheel makes me better driver, and i don't really care. But it makes sim racing/driving more enjoyable experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
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  16. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    With my experience I think that a better brake pedal does make you faster while a high end wheel wont make you faster, but will make you more costante and will make you make less driving mistakes as it will make you feel better and faster the over/under-steer and because of its better FFB. when I started to use my load cell brake mode( total spanish sim brake mod) my lap crono has improved almost one second in circuite like Monza for example. So if you want to be faster, just invest in a better brake mode lilke Perfect Pedals brake mode, TSS brake mode or any good load cell mode.
     
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  17. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    I changed from years with a G25 to a T300 Integral.

    I was slower after the switch. No feel for the brakes and my arms didn't understand that there are heavier forces that need to be countered. I spun a lot and forgot to steer/countersteer heavier in many situations.

    After a while I'm almost where I left with the G25 now. Braking still is a problem.

    The T300 is a nice step up from the G25. It is wonderful to drive with and feels more lifelike but it has not made me faster or a better driver in any way. I was a worse driver after the switch...
     
  18. iev35

    iev35 Registered

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    Since I have my DD wheel,I feel than I drive a real car because the power/details are awsome.
    Am I a faster driver now? Of course NO! IMO,more you go near the "real" more it's difficult...but it's so good...;)
    Am I a better driver?Depend what "better driver" means...if "better driver" is "faster driver" so NO,if "better driver" is " to feel like a real driver" so YES!
    I think than if you're a fast driver with a pad on Gran Turismo you'll be a fast driver on any wheel,if you're fast with a G27,you'll be fast on DD wheel etc...
     
  19. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    I feel I can share my feelings and opinions too. I have been living with my trusty G25 set for 8 years which served me without any hick ups whatsoever. Extraordinary stuff by any means, especially how brutally treated it was on and off racing. Switched to T300rs Alcantara with T3PA. I was way way way slower than with my G25. It took me at least 2 weeks of driving to recalibrate my brain again. After that I begun to perform exactly like I have with G25 with some improvements to my driving when sliding (it improved a bit. Didn't have problems with it before, just when I get them now I lose less time and my tire wear improved by some amount). So no, having better wheel which both on paper and in hands T300 is, doesn't make you faster. Just like William have said it augments good driving habits but it doesn't fix bad driving. It took me a while to get back up to my normal speed, performance. But once I re-calibrated my brain, muscle memory I noticed few minor changes to my driving which resulted in me becoming better driver, not necessarily a faster one.

    Different story unfolds when we start talking about pedals. For me when I tried few high end pedals improvement was straight away. If you go from G25 or T3PA to load cell or even hydraulic pedals/ brake pedal you feel and see improvement from the get go. From couple of laps or even few corners you get that feel that makes your driving instinctive like with nothing else.

    Like Mario Andretti once said: "it is amazing how many drivers, even at the formula one level, think that the brakes are for slowing a car down"
    What am I all about here? Well, doing what he meant in his quote, with cheap set of pedals is hard, very hard, to a point that it sometimes ends up in being slower and frustrated. High end pedals allow you to be super precise with brake inputs which allow you balancing your car using brake pedal on the level that with any other pedals would be almost impossible due to lack of feel, precision. It can be compared to threading a needle blindfolded using chopsticks.

    In conclusion.
    Does high end servo, wheel make you faster? No. Just more consistent and gives more pleasure while doing so.
    Does high end pedals make you faster? Yes. Sometimes not even tenths but whole seconds (depends on car/track combo). Both faster and better driver. Less tire wear, less mistakes, more raw pace.
     
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  20. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    So Ronnie you had the same transition as I had. G25 to T300 Integral. One question, do you use the conical brakemod? If yes how did you set it up? Right at the start of the throw or at the back? Cheers!
     

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