Why the sound from official content sucks? and why no Windshields?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fábio Martins, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Fábio Martins

    Fábio Martins Registered

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    I mean really!
    Today I tried to delete some mods and organize the content I have.

    So, I went through all GT3 mods (BES, Simtek, Apex etc), and one thing that should have been easy, like deleting non oficial repeated content, was really hard, because in one hand I will not want to delete official content.. in other hand the sounds from mods are way better.

    See this example:

    Bentley Continental GT3 from SIMTEK - The detail of the sound is incredible. From the car starting, to the downshifting. The sound has soul if that makes sense, like when you see the cars in real life. You almost can ear the car sing and with lot of details (really, try the car to see what I`m talking about. The youtube videos don`t do it justice).

    Bentley Continental GT3 from STUDIO397 - Completely dead sound. You can`t feel anything. You can`t ear the transmission. The downshifts are almost silent. The sound totally lacks any sort of detail and are very far from real life.

    Why is that? Studio 397 is lacking quality audio editors/sound designer? Apart from total lack of detail, all the sounds seem to have a effect over them, like some kind of muffler that kills the sound.

    I think is more the problem is more the sound mix than the actual capture.

    Another thing that you can see in the Bentley GT3 from Simtek for example is the dirty windshield. In fact every other simulator on the market has windshields (because uh, they are part of the car).

    So.. why the windshields from Studio397 cars are invisible or non existent?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  2. philman

    philman Registered

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    In my opinion, the sounds of the GT3, GTE, P2 mods have been overlooked. It's not only the engine sounds that are faulty. For example the noise of the tires on dry and wet ground are identical, there is no noise of the tires on the ground during a wheel lock (in cockpit view). One of the references in terms of sound rendering is indeed SIMTEK's GT3 mod.
    It's the attention paid to all these details that improves the immersion in the game but it's also a driving aid.
     
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  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I would guess that focus devs have when working on rF2 looks roughly like this: Elite Esports>UI>Bugs>Graphics>Online Racing>AI>Physics>Sound>Fixing/improving stuff that was already released.... So yeah, I wouldn't expect anything soon or maybe ever.

    As for windshields that bugs me a lot as well. Windshields to me are one of the most important graphical elements for immersion, there is so much windshields take in real life, so having absolutely perfectly clean and ideally transparent windshields isn't immersive. S397 has implemented quite nice windshields rain technology, but a lot more is desired. I think Marcel has mentioned in the big RaceDepartment interview that windshields right now are this clean because of how wrong it gets lit due to cars from behind at night. One of big improvements that we know is up to happen will be lighting system improvement for rF2, so I suppose it could be quite a big deal and could improve windshields, hopefully. Windshields just shouldn't get lit from behind obviously, it should get lit from ahead and also shoadows should be visible on them as light from front would light up all that little dust and scratches and dirt, and shadowed areas should appear "clean". Also baked in interior reflection is a nice thing, Howston G4 had it, don't know if still has. ​
     
  4. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    Personally I've been screaming for years to see all the mod or official sounds again.
    There is so much missing to make it all come alive...on some cars the engine sound is not bad, but the engine sound alone is not everything!
    I'm a music lover so I have a lot of hardware dedicated to sound, amps, pre amps, speakers, DAC, hi-fi headphones, gamer headphones etc... it goes from Marantz, Tannoy, Sansui, Micromega, AKG, HiFiMAN, ,Focal, Cabasse etc... from the 70's to nowadays harware, in short I can have very good quality sound with simple headphones or on speakers.
    when I go on ACC or R3E I really enjoy driving because the sound environment is great, it's not just the engine and the tires, but a lot of other little sounds that reach the ears and I'm not even talking about the reverberation which is very well transcribed.
    S397 knows very well that the sounds have to be reviewed from A to Z, no need to go bothering them with that, they are also players and they have ears! They have a lot of work to do at the moment with the bug fixes and the new UI and others, I really hope that the sound will soon appear at the top of the priority list and that it will be able to compete with an ACC or R3E!

    Translated with www.DeepL.com :oops:
     
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  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Sometime ago someone said on Discord that almost all staff in S397 is part time workers (coding team included), I doubted at first but I guess this would explain a lot of things :D
     
  6. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    This is wrong. Please don't spread fake news ;)
     
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  7. Christopher Elliott

    Christopher Elliott Administrator Staff Member

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    FYI windshield we have an issue with a lot of glare at night when there's dirt on it and cars headlights from behind, so for now we have removed most or all of the build up. So what you are seeing is not, no windshield, it's just a clean windshield.
     
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  8. kimbo

    kimbo Registered

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    Dirty windshield !!! Ironically, what I don't want in real life, I want it in my simulator, is for me one of the graphic details that provide more immersion
     
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  9. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    sure ;)

    Well unless it's raining it looks like there is nothing there. Could make it a bit dark, very little bit, just to give a feeling there is something there
     
  10. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    In that case a lot of people would say that the dirty implementation sucks and it would be better not to do nothing.
     
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  11. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn Registered

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    Dirty windshield in simulator isn't working, real life your stereo vision looks thru minor imperfections on windshield and you won't see them when driving, by two reasons, first above stereo vision focusing on horizon, two because your body and car will move/shake just enough to fool your stereo vision to not see those. IRL dust on windshield is visible(or noticed) to driver only when driving towards sun(or light source).
    Personally I think at better without any trash/dust on windscreen on simulator, sun glare can be done other way and dust/dirt should have option to opt out on simulator.
     
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  12. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    In VR you have stereo vision, would it work?
     
  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I personally can focus on the road through dirt and stuff on windshield in a sim with my non-VR stuff.

    @kimbo True ! It is also true for most computer simulated stuff, in virtuality perfection and "nothingness" is always given by default. While in reality it is other way around.
     
  14. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Yep, if it doesn't work well in VR, forget about it. These features seem cool in theory, but if you don't get them working with all equipment under all daytime conditions, it's not worth it IMO. Besides, the windshield isn't necessarily dirty, so we can just pretend driving with clean windshields. In order for it to be realistic, dirt should form at exactly proper rate (and number of squashed bugs should depend on frequency of insects in region)...
     
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  15. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    Ageed, sound could do with an overhaul, GTR2 was a great one for sounds, enviromental sound reverberations aswell
     
  16. Fábio Martins

    Fábio Martins Registered

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    Right.

    To not overcomplicate, it would be easier, to just put some cues, (like a minor scratch or piece of dirt for example) to give some illusion). The glass opacity could remain the same. It would be sufficient, i guess.
     
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  17. Hoshi

    Hoshi Registered

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    Exactly, right now it's like playing LFS!
     
  18. I_Bellett

    I_Bellett Registered

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    Currently, major sound engines are "FMOD", "Wwise", and "Xaudio2".
    No matter which sound engine the S397 chooses, it will definitely be better than the "Miles Sound System" currently used in rF2.
     
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  19. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    BTW race cars dont use glass
     
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  20. Fábio Martins

    Fábio Martins Registered

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    Yes I know. I live in La Sarthe. I don`t know every word in english.
     
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