Why is AC more popular than rF2 in terms of modding?
- Thread starter Joseph Burton-Harris
- Start date
Is that true? I thought DLC is encrypted. Also racing them online would require manual distribution to every participant anyway?rF2 DLC you can make fixes for and run them offline / online and publish them on steam and site.
Now that's moddable
Can you do that in AC, ACC, AMS2, iRacing, RRE, pCars ?
Emery
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Yes stuff is encrypted, but you can still create patches to override and while that might not be sensible, it is possible.
If the server is correctly configured, the patch would autodownload if the participant doesn't have it. That's been one of the core tenets of rF2, but many server admins don't bother to configure the server to enable this feature.
graphicaluserinterface
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rFactor 2 lost rF1 modders before its official 2013 release. They didn't like the package system or other complicated bits, some people even turned down lifetime licenses from ISI back in 2012. rFactor 2's steep pricing and 12 months of online access with the basic purchase while still an ever evolving product rubbed many the wrong way. rF2 also had severe night lighting issues and it took years until it reached a standard mostly kept until the PBR/IBL updates, and even those took a while and looked cartoonish for a while (remembering Interlagos was released the day before a game update to make it not look purple). While both AC and rF2 struggled with core game updates, frustrating modders and leaving abandoned mods/content, Assetto was far more accessible to get assets into the game and the visuals didn't break with updates (audio was usually the culprit breaking AC mods).
Some of the popular rF1 modders did not migrate to AC. They moved on with their lives, some away from content creation altogether, some being hired full-time and others doing contract work. Assetto brought on waves on new modders to the scene while rFactor 2 lost existing modders. Even if it drove to the level of F1 Challenge, Assetto allowed for better visual fidelity of cars and ran lighter than rF2, and folks could use different programs to bring 3D into the game. With rF2, it also felt as if the developers were your rivals and doing what they could to keep you behind, as it only took ISI 2 years before considering giving up on the game.
Some of the popular rF1 modders did not migrate to AC. They moved on with their lives, some away from content creation altogether, some being hired full-time and others doing contract work. Assetto brought on waves on new modders to the scene while rFactor 2 lost existing modders. Even if it drove to the level of F1 Challenge, Assetto allowed for better visual fidelity of cars and ran lighter than rF2, and folks could use different programs to bring 3D into the game. With rF2, it also felt as if the developers were your rivals and doing what they could to keep you behind, as it only took ISI 2 years before considering giving up on the game.
8Ball
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Yes it is true.
Any fix still requires the full DLC to be present.
Fixes / tweaks for DLC content can used offline and online as long as everyone has both DLC and rfmod with the updates.
The only proviso is you can't use both in the same rfmod
It is even possible to run multi versions of same DLC by keeping rfmods installed when steam is in online mode.
If rfmods remain installed old DLC can't be uninstalled.
So you can run as many different versions of same cars or tracks to test as you like.
Can't do that in any sim, none of them not even AC because of the file structure.
P.S. Nor can you do in any old ISIMotor sim, GTR2/GTL/rFactor//AMS and AC... require separate versions of same content to be in separate renamed folders which would just increase the size of the sim untold.
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8Ball
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+1
That is why stock content / DLC fixes/updates should not be used in open rooms unless all participants are well versed.
Offline and Leagues are totally sensible to do.
ISI/397 approach is best, just look at Italy, Belgium with their own folders and manifest so you can use both in the same rfmod
they don't mind.
Woochoo's mods same deal so many others.Also repost and alter old content in workshop, Silverstone, São Paulo, etc.
DLC Le Mans, all had major upgrades all welcome on Steam.
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Woodee
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AC modding does suffer a bit from the rF1 problem which is the random mod zip. How do you version track that? At least the rF2 packaged mod system is ONE file which is version tracked with a hash sig so you can definitely tell which version you have. Unlike a zip file full of misc files.
8Ball
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I agreed / liked your post in principle average zip vs rFactor 2.
However a zip is nothing more than a zip, right
Meaning using the latest version of 7Zip ( I recommend ) you can re-pack anything, anyway you like.
With ACM's JSGME method you can re-pack everything, even dividing content into multiple "mods" you see in screen to obtain various outcomes. Even packing all of Kunos content into mods again see screenshot.
Even have a mod just to enable the bench test cars "Unused Assetto Supercars" .
Not so black and white
Next thing is to disable the same amount of content through Mod Manager is 100 times slower then AC Manager.
I tested 100GB of mods in each. ACM is almost instant while rF2 always take minutes. Just no compare there.
Was JSGME ever open source ?
I got permission in writing from both JSGME and OVGME authors to include them in my " Essentials Packs "
Huge GME mods for GTL, GTR2, rFactor, AMS.
It was my hope this system could become a standard way back when.
That would have made conflict fixing much much easier.
Only proviso was I did not alter them, not saying ACM did that, just saying.
P.S. just saying my method is different to most
If I "disable all" that is what it does, AC has no cars or tracks period.
This helps with conflicts you see.
If tracks and cars is not empty there will be errant files left behind so I know where the issue
comes from
Any sim that is final and receives no updates is perfect for this using JSGME or OVGME.
Solved many issues of conflicts and other things in all ISIMotor1.0/2.0 by making the entire default sim the first "mod" activated. Never heard that before I bet.
Disable all mods, get a empty root folder then your mods are working 100%.
Sounds sketchy, it's not just pure logic and creativity
just left field.
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8Ball
Registered
Nice
AC does not let you swap cars in the garage though.
That is a big plus for mod testing imho.
Group testing new mod can drive all the cars without ever having to leave the room.
As well when they can go back to same car during the same session and lap times have been retained.
Nice features, yet totally overlooked especially by offliners.
Those and others are directly due to the modding approach.
Woodee
Registered
I agreed / liked your post in principle average zip vs rFactor 2.
However a zip is nothing more than a zip, right
Meaning using the latest version of 7Zip ( I recommend ) you can re-pack anything, anyway you like.
With ACM's JSGME method you can re-pack everything, even dividing content into multiple "mods" you see in screen to obtain various outcomes. Even packing all of Kunos content into mods again see screenshot.
Even have a mod just to enable the bench test cars "Unused Assetto Supercars" .
I prefer the way rF2 does it with just 1 file and not an archive. The patching system and version tracking to know what you are running. I remember the days of rF1 with loose files and server mismatches and it was a nightmare!
mantasisg
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Most likely it is going to be exactly that. And I don't think it is wrong decision. Modding in next Kunos sim most likely is going to be less simple because of it. Or perhapas more like having modds installed and running on multiple computers.
How do you think this will be achieved ? I assume it is not going to be as simple as just extracting archives of files in their destination folders. Each individual copy of the mod will have their ID in some way ? Or it won't be possible to distribute and install mods without some kind of key ? Installing mods will require internet connection ? Or perhaps that is only going to be a thing for online racing ?
https://traxion.gg/assetto-corsa-ev...a-more-creative-way-than-the-series-original/
CeeBee
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i dusted off my tools today to see about building an rf2 track for kicks
RTB ✓
Blender 4.1 ✓
3DSimEd ✓
OptiX Bakery ✓
I started reading up on it again and gave up, so damn complicated ?! No downloads work, the ones i can find or incompatible with everything, no cohesive info anywhere.
If there is anyone else who uses the same tools and has active downloadable plugins that actually still work, can you point me to downloads and a youtube tutorial if possible?
RTB ✓
Blender 4.1 ✓
3DSimEd ✓
OptiX Bakery ✓
I started reading up on it again and gave up, so damn complicated ?! No downloads work, the ones i can find or incompatible with everything, no cohesive info anywhere.
If there is anyone else who uses the same tools and has active downloadable plugins that actually still work, can you point me to downloads and a youtube tutorial if possible?
All this talk about slip angles to discuss why AC modding is more popular just blows my mind ... I guess eventhough I would surely rate as an rf2 fanboy I spent quite a fair amount of time with AC and most other platforms to know that you can get away with even more extreme slides and slip angles in GT cars and people simply don't care.
I think it get's overlooked too often, but the simple answer to all of this is the balance of complexity versus simplicity of the two products in pretty much every area. That helped AC to allways feel like a cohesive product, while it hasn't been in development for several years now and gets sold very cheap and is very easy to get into. It's a never ending cycle of that product getting more and more popular and I suspect ACEVO will propably face the same challenges that rF2 faced compared to rF1. You don't get the same amount of content with that quality for that price, while a product like rF2 still hasn't matured into a cohesive experience after all this time while it still costs alot more to get the good stuff. Why people never talk about the entry price point in such discussions puzzles me. When you can drive hundreds of different cars around Nords for ten bucks then why in gods name would you buy rF2?
Now with the danger of me sounding like an rF2 fanboy or AC hater - wich are strong terms that get thrown around far too often because at the end I am just a sim racer who has found his home with the rF based sims as they offer the best fidelity and options for me - this simplicity is the thing that allways kept me from getting hooked on AC because the whole product feels like a complete shortcut in every regard. From the moment when you hit the track with auto pit speed limiters, the engine allways running with auto ignition and never being able to stall, to the pretty much non existent rule systems that stretch across the whole product and begin with the joke of a starting procedure, to the lack of races with time cycles and just options to adjust ... it allways has been a driving and not a racing sim for me and it's no suprise that creating content for a product like that is alot easier and thus attractive. For somone who played rF1 before, a sim that is on the complete opposite of the spectrum of AC, this is easily explainable. But I think there is a huge part in the AC playerbase that hasn't played rF1 so they don't know what they are missing in terms of features nor do they care. They don't care that there are no radiators or brake ducts or that other technical systems like DRS or the often praised hybrid system are as the rest of the sim - complete short cuts.
I think it get's overlooked too often, but the simple answer to all of this is the balance of complexity versus simplicity of the two products in pretty much every area. That helped AC to allways feel like a cohesive product, while it hasn't been in development for several years now and gets sold very cheap and is very easy to get into. It's a never ending cycle of that product getting more and more popular and I suspect ACEVO will propably face the same challenges that rF2 faced compared to rF1. You don't get the same amount of content with that quality for that price, while a product like rF2 still hasn't matured into a cohesive experience after all this time while it still costs alot more to get the good stuff. Why people never talk about the entry price point in such discussions puzzles me. When you can drive hundreds of different cars around Nords for ten bucks then why in gods name would you buy rF2?
Now with the danger of me sounding like an rF2 fanboy or AC hater - wich are strong terms that get thrown around far too often because at the end I am just a sim racer who has found his home with the rF based sims as they offer the best fidelity and options for me - this simplicity is the thing that allways kept me from getting hooked on AC because the whole product feels like a complete shortcut in every regard. From the moment when you hit the track with auto pit speed limiters, the engine allways running with auto ignition and never being able to stall, to the pretty much non existent rule systems that stretch across the whole product and begin with the joke of a starting procedure, to the lack of races with time cycles and just options to adjust ... it allways has been a driving and not a racing sim for me and it's no suprise that creating content for a product like that is alot easier and thus attractive. For somone who played rF1 before, a sim that is on the complete opposite of the spectrum of AC, this is easily explainable. But I think there is a huge part in the AC playerbase that hasn't played rF1 so they don't know what they are missing in terms of features nor do they care. They don't care that there are no radiators or brake ducts or that other technical systems like DRS or the often praised hybrid system are as the rest of the sim - complete short cuts.
Woodee
Registered
Would be helpful to know what links are dead links? https://docs.studio-397.com/developers-guide/track-development
FAlonso
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AC and ACC are in a privileged place simply for their realistic driving sensations, contrasted by most simracers and many well-known professional drivers. Everything else, such as mods, is another addition.
ACC is packed with features, only has GT3 and GT4 and is one of the most used simulators at the moment.
At the end of the day, people want to use their hardware and feel like they are driving a real car. Everything else is secondary, pitstop, start, launch... I haven't competed online in AC for years, I simply take the car I want and go around and around a circuit with my VR glasses with the time at 12x while I drop it the slime
ACC is packed with features, only has GT3 and GT4 and is one of the most used simulators at the moment.
At the end of the day, people want to use their hardware and feel like they are driving a real car. Everything else is secondary, pitstop, start, launch... I haven't competed online in AC for years, I simply take the car I want and go around and around a circuit with my VR glasses with the time at 12x while I drop it the slime
CeeBee
Registered
no Bledner tools at that link only 3dsmax , as im not a trillionaire and i prefer not to pirate stuff i need to use Bender instead.
I remember seeing several tutorials in this forum by @svictor using Blender.
svictor
Registered
Thanks @Bernat
For anyone interested, here is a list of guide that mostly done in blender + GIMP:
https://forum.studio-397.com/index....g-notes-using-opensource-free-software.70938/
@Frederick Alonso also made various tutorials with blender:
https://forum.studio-397.com/index....that-might-help-your-track-perfections.68001/
Some other free blender tools from other modders:
Blender rFactor2 Export Scripts by @Traveller
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/blender-rfactor2-export-scripts.74821/
Blender Plugins by @haunetal1990
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/blender-plugins-from-me.73647/
Modding is indeed very difficult in RF2, and especially tricky with opensource software and new PBR system since the lack of official tools and plugins. Though with enough time and love pour into it, it can be done, especially with the help from many RF2 community modders.
For anyone interested, here is a list of guide that mostly done in blender + GIMP:
https://forum.studio-397.com/index....g-notes-using-opensource-free-software.70938/
@Frederick Alonso also made various tutorials with blender:
https://forum.studio-397.com/index....that-might-help-your-track-perfections.68001/
Some other free blender tools from other modders:
Blender rFactor2 Export Scripts by @Traveller
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/blender-rfactor2-export-scripts.74821/
Blender Plugins by @haunetal1990
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/blender-plugins-from-me.73647/
Modding is indeed very difficult in RF2, and especially tricky with opensource software and new PBR system since the lack of official tools and plugins. Though with enough time and love pour into it, it can be done, especially with the help from many RF2 community modders.