Why is AC more popular than rF2 in terms of modding?

[Joseph Burton-Harris]

I have virtually no knowledge when it comes to modding but I am struggling to understand why Assetto Corsa has sooo many more modders/mods than rF2?
rF2 is arguably a better sim in almost every aspect so why isn't it more popular?
It sucks because there is so much more content out there on AC that we don't have on rF2.

 

[redapg]

As far as i have heard, AC is much easier to mod, on Physics and also on Graphics Side.
But it's only a Suspicion, because i've never tried to mod something for AC.

 

[8Ball]

It sucks because there is so much more content out there on AC that we don't have on rF2.

The Y does not matter.
It's not the drive but how you get there. ( High Gear forum)
You on the right track trust me.

It's like most things in life, the hardest are challenging and test resolve.
Many mod teams had one look at rF2 and said good content in this is not possible.
Well joke was on them.

 

[Bernat]

I have virtually no knowledge when it comes to modding but I am struggling to understand why Assetto Corsa has sooo many more modders/mods than rF2?
rF2 is arguably a better sim in almost every aspect so why isn't it more popular?
It sucks because there is so much more content out there on AC that we don't have on rF2.

It's a lot easier to do mods for AC than for rF2. I'm not a modder but there's a video in YT explaining it. A more detailed and accurate simulation requires more skills and time to work with.

 

[Comante]

I would add that a lot of modders are "just" enthusiats, and not professional studios, despite the passion and the effort they may not have the resources to correctly mod something especially if the engine require you to feed it a lot of data that are hard to obtain. I've never modded but occasionally I've looked at what people do, just how suspension geometry must be created in RF2 is headache, at least for me.
In the end, if you are passionate about a kind of content, and the engine is preventing you to get satisfied, then it is logical to switch to a more friendly platform.
Just like most people make games in Unity or UE and not directly in C++ , the difference is delivering something or delivering nothing.

 

[Woodee]

Being able to use any 3D package to import cars (exporting FBX) and rF2 stuck to the use of 3dsmax plugins. There are workarounds but some just won't have the patience to jump through those hoops. So you can get quicker results in AC, but better? Who knows.

 

[Rui Santos]

That's because AC is EASIER, which automatically makes more people use it, just look at Gran Turismo, F1 or Forza numbers.

It's normal that ordinary people find more joy in a title where they can pretend to be Senna, Schumacher or Max without too much effort

 

[FAlonso]

I read a modder who said that it's easy to make a car that handles believably in AC and very difficult to do the same in rF2. In addition to requiring more effort, you get less reward, the crappiest AC mod will be downloaded more than the best rF2 mod since the people interested in AC are much higher than those interested in rF2.

I really want to see what the new kunos graphics engine looks like, I don't even want to imagine what this simulator is going to be like when people port AC content to the new AC2

 

[Bernat]

I read a modder who said that it's easy to make a car that handles believably in AC and very difficult to do the same in rF2. In addition to requiring more effort, you get less reward, the crappiest AC mod will be downloaded more than the best rF2 mod since the people interested in AC are much higher than those interested in rF2.

I really want to see what the new kunos graphics engine looks like, I don't even want to imagine what this simulator is going to be like when people port AC content to the new AC2

There's more AC mods but the quality is lower, as is the quality of the simulation. The masses don't mind, they only want to see the car paint shine.

As @Rui Santos says, the bulk of the users just want to see pretty cars which they can drive right away like pros. AC provides lots of fancy cars, driving more or less alike, and easy to build too. The modders are happy because the public is easy to please, and the users are happy too because they get lots of mods. It hits a sweet spot for both.

 

[Anto870]

Years ago various modders said that the problem lay, largely, in the tire model of rF2, much more complicated than that of AC, in fact I have always defined AC as a sim with 'wooden wheels'...

 

[Chris Lesperance]

I haven't tried AC modding yet but have done a lot in rF2. It is pretty much what everybody else has mentioned. rF2 there can be many tiny things that can make a car not load, or load with issues. The physics spreadsheet in intimidating. There isn't any work arounds if you are missing information on a car. Tires, I still have no idea on. Even if you have a lot of the real world data and manuals, it is still difficult to get working accurately.

Graphically, rF2 had several massive changes which required redoing models. DX9 to DX11 to PBR. Updated sound engine. If they were not updated, they didn't look good. Having to redo mods a second or third time really turned people off.

But as people said, the AC workstream seems a lot easier for getting cars in game looking good. AC has in game tools vs the rF2 spreadsheets and text editors. Being able to see your changes with better camera controls and some simple playground work better than having to load a car at a track and having the in game camera controls of Mod Dev.

Having cars to be placed in game in a few minutes, weather it is physically accurate or not, things snowballed for AC. The lesser learning curve gets more people interested in modding. More people modding gets more content. More content gets more people into the game, and the cycle continues. Now you can get pretty much any car you want in game or race at any track. Now that is a compelling purchase when you have that.

I do love the feel of rF2 so I don't think I'll be going away. But I've had several club level race drivers ask about having cars in AC. Mainly because the other content outside of their cars are done. That's a massive thing to compete with.

 

[JEmilio]

It sucks because there is so much more content out there on AC that we don't have on rF2.

Quality > quantity
An easy to mod game makes the game to last long or even forever, look for example PES6, the game is 18 years old and as today people keep updating it. In contrast it's inevitable a huge amount of low quality mods and other stuff that makes the game arcade like, eg the recent rollercoaster track or the banana car made for Air Conditioning.

 

[SharD]

I think the main issue is a lack of documentation. I have no idea what half of the parameters set in the .hdv and .rcd files even do. A car is easy to make, but making them drive well is difficult, as tuning them is just shooting in the dark most of the time.

 

[mantasisg]

I have been quite deep in AC modding before I felt like I need more of physics and features and moved to rF2.

This is why AC is superior in terms of modding:
1. It is more simple, less advanced.
2. It has easy compatibility to work with fbx files, so wide range of 3D modeling programs fits the task well.
3. Less encryption. It is easier and more inviting to use official sources as assets or as examples.
4. Better marketing and product completion. The game just had much better official content to begin with, more complete. The game itself also was more complete for what it is meant to be. The road has been walked through for modders just to easily follow, albeit it is much more narrower, shorter and straighter than rF2 which is superior simulation. Besides that they used some mods to official content, and that made a huge boost community wise. At the beginning modding was incredibly integrated into AC and officially suported. The official forums were insanely active and simply buzzing from activity, before it actually became too much for Kunos, and modding community was forced to leave to Racedepartment.
5. AC is much more popular. And everybody knows how it goes. Things that are popular attracts even more attention, simply because they already seem popular. More attention, more modders, more people who appreciates and uses their work. rF2 needed better UI to begin with. We got it now, but juices barely got squeezed again. There isn't even no indications for your best track/car combo laptime, so it is still simply just driving, you absolutely don't accumulate no records at all in rF2, there is 0 gamefication, no fun steam achievements....
6. The modding standard. Although I think in AC modding standard continuously went lower, at least in terms of RIPS and casual physics. IMO at least in AC there has always been a difference if mods are made up to certain spec. While in rF2 community there is little difference if shit is made, or someone makes an incredible work. Community seems to have robotic appreciation that doesn't reflect quality. On one hand nice - not that much needy complaining. On the other hand, no use of trying hard and trying to make something truly good that rF2 is acutaly capable of having, and this is while it is already 4x harder to make something decent quality in rF2, which reveals all rF2 power.
7. Uncertainty of rF2 development. People seems to be loving thing that are getting love. rF2 is getting love for a year or so, and then development halts for a year or two because devs are developing something else. Inertia never builds, and something is wildly WIP anytime.
8. LOL GUYS HAVE YOU TRIED TO DRIVE A CAR IN LATEST DEVMODE ?

AC modding actually grew out the sim itself. After AC development stopped, modders continued on developing. And everyone knows how crazy lengths it has went. Up to a point that people probably praise modders more than Stefano. Which to me is ridiculous. This proves that perhaps AC has been even too simple and too accessible if it could have been hacked like that, while in rF2 it is not even possible to break encryptions.

THE MAIN REASON IMO has to be ease of work with FBX files. While rF2 gJED project was axed I'll never understand. It just shows how low of the priority was modding for rF2 developers. Which is perhaps correct attitude having in mind that everything else have had to be completed further before modding could flow nicely.

The whole thing is so stupidly funny and wrong. AC had modding in mind to begin with having in mind that it won't be massive success, and there won't be that much official content. Thus big official support for modding at the beginning. The funny thing is that it is much more needed for rF2, but it never happened and it probably never will up to a spec that should have been. Yet rF2 has quite a lot of mods anyway. Quite a few very well made mod tracks. However way too few truly well made cars that would be scratch made and would shine in every department - looks, physics, sounds.... it just never truly picked up for rF2, and frankly IMO there doesn't even seem to be enough of community drive - which is perhaps most essential drive for all these things to happen. Making these creations for FREE, is already insane, IT IS INSANE. Creators deserve at least REAL respect and involvement. But there is neither.

 

[Rui Santos]

@mantasisg don't worry because the creators have already put a lot of money on the pocket, one thing led to another. People kept stuck with AC thanks to modding and i bet 90% bought all the content just because they support and like the simulation. It was a great move by Kunos, a huge success for both sides, developers and users

 

[Robin Pansar]

I think the main issue is a lack of documentation. I have no idea what half of the parameters set in the .hdv and .rcd files even do. A car is easy to make, but making them drive well is difficult, as tuning them is just shooting in the dark most of the time.

Documentation is fine. Just use the SkipBarber files in ModDev and you will get an explanation for most things. The physics sheet is also a great help. A lot you can just reverse engineer in the physics sheet, and, even more simple, just test on-track. Most of it is just put in your parameters based on research. The real task is the tyres of course, but if you get a decent model as a reference, you can dissect it and understand all the material layers. Plus, some simple reading will already give you a better understanding of the anatomy of a race tyre. The only annoying, and time-consuming thing left is the build the lookup table and tweak it into endlessness.

 

[Bernat]

It's good to know what a former AC modder thinks.

3. Less encryption. It is easier and more inviting to use official sources as assets or as examples.

It's encrypted in the first place supposedly because it uses real data provided by manufacturers and teams and has to be protected. AC can't say the same. There's already a good deal of official content which is not encrypted as far as I know.

7. Uncertainty of rF2 development. People seems to be loving thing that are getting love. rF2 is getting love for a year or so, and then development halts for a year or two because devs are developing something else. Inertia never builds, and something is wildly WIP anytime.

AC is officially dead. How is it getting love then? Do you mean if rF2 was dead mod development would be better?

 

[mantasisg]

It's encrypted in the first place supposedly because it uses real data provided by manufacturers and teams and has to be protected. AC can't say the same. There's already a good deal of official content which is not encrypted as far as I know.

For sure. But more than that. Reusing assets, textures and so on is something modders do. I for example could have made use of Austin Mini Cooper tires. Who knows what else could be found there to help out. But whatever, as logn as there is decent documentation of all the stuff and it is updated with new stuff this is not a major issue.

AC is officially dead. How is it getting love then? Do you mean if rF2 was dead mod development would be better?

People LOOOOOOOOVE updates, for example I am insanely grateful everytime Bill Gates sends me Windows update (jk). I remember it was always a special day when Kunos was releasing new version of AC + new content (in rF2 never gave such feel, no release ever was made to feel like an event worth counting hours to). And it is no different when they comes from modders, people still love updates, although maybe not to such of official updates extent. I wasn't even active in AC ever since modders took over AC, but I know they did some wild stuff. Some is very nice, and some is borderline silly, but I guess it is ok as long as people loves these things. Also the part of official development being over is that there probably won't be changes that will break mods, or maybe there can be, but not for vanilla AC.

Modding in AC never died, but the golden days of modding was over as soon as Kunos shut down their mods subforum. Perhaps somewhat nice stuff continued for a year or two, but at lower gear. Eventually more ripped content started going through, and that sort of content just isn't made with same amount of heart as scratch made stuff, even though theoretically they still can be dressed up to standard and have decent physics and sounds.

rF2 should have, and COULD HAVE taken modders from AC if there would have just been something like gJED continued to develop, to work as well as ksEditor does, or better than that. Perhaps also allowing people to run .tbc instead of .tgm for tires, if they wish to. Since there are bunch of rusty old physics gurus that refuse to step up to several times more advanced tire simulation.

 

[Uff]

Modding in AC never died, but the golden days of modding was over as soon as Kunos shut down their mods subforum. Perhaps somewhat nice stuff continued for a year or two, but at lower gear.

Honestly I think this is very far from reality. "Professional" modding teams like Race Sim Studios, Virtual Racing Cars, IER and United Racing Design are releasing their best mods thanks to CSP support. Patreon is full of teams still supporting the platform (mostly unauthorized conversions, I agree).

Maybe it's just an impression of mine, but personally I still see the modding community on AC to be very much alive.

 

[Emery]

Maybe it's just an impression of mine, but personally I still see the modding community on AC to be very much alive.

Free mods have slowed to a trickle on Overtake (formerly Race Department). There are only a couple people making tracks now (come on, Pescara! Even though it's a paid track, it's one I'm willing to pay for).